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lumberjack bonus question

wwebb

Sorceror
Re: lumberjack bonus question

Carpathius;1588963 said:
you can't really 'test' for the bonus in such a simple way. it's going to require a code search of the source or test the amount of times whatever the factor for the damage is.

most of the source code is test for greater/less than or equal off a skill and there are a lot of percentages. I would go with what was mentioned earlier and say it is 10% of your LJ skill. to think otherwise is just dumb.

Thanks capt. obvious, but I am not a hybrid developer.

To test it forget changing AR and other factors because let's establish that there's a difference before changing factors.

Just do about THIRTY or FORTY hits with no LJ and a GM axe, then *switch axes* to a new identical GM axe and test with LJ, again thirty or forty hits. Otherwise your tests say very very little.

I originally did this at 2ish AM, and again before heading to work this morning. I do plan to do a more extensive test later, it does takes more time than you might think.
--
To the halberd question, no, I used an axe each time. I'm just saying I obviously should have been using an axe all along instead of a halberd in pvp due to the greater damage over time.

Other thing I should have clarified: After each round each weapon was repaired by a GM smith. Just in case someone might have thought my weapons effectiveness went down over time.
 

Devilnaut

Wanderer
Re: lumberjack bonus question

wwebb;1589125 said:
I originally did this at 2ish AM, and again before heading to work this morning. I do plan to do a more extensive test later, it does takes more time than you might think.

Other thing I should have clarified: After each round each weapon was repaired by a GM smith. Just in case someone might have thought my weapons effectiveness went down over time.

Yeah that's what I was concerned about.

Thanks for testing it, interesting information.

It is a little cheesy if it's true that .01 LJ is effective... and should probably be changed IMHO.
 

byrdman

Sorceror
Re: lumberjack bonus question

wwebb;1588801 said:
Ok, instead of waiting and hoping someone may have done this already, I decided to find out for myself.

I did this test with my swords tank mage. He's 90 str, gm swords/tactics/anat. The weapon used was a +10 tactics vanq battle axe (found it the quickest in my house). The character I beat on was 100 str, 0 ar. I healed fully after each successful hit.

First round, no lumberjacking bonus, 10 hits

20
36
44
36
40
28
28
44
34
28
--
308 total dmg for 10 hits

Well after this, I at least found out I'm going to be using vanq axes instead of halberds on this character as they are much quicker.

=====================

Round Two, I went and got 0.3 lj skill, dropped med for this for test purposes

48
48
40
36
20
40
48
36
52 (!!)
44
--
412 total dmg for 10 hits

Significant increase in overall damage. I thought I might be getting some lucky damage rolls, so I decided I'd give it one more try.

=====================

Round Three, same scenario as above

48
48
36
40
40
44
42
40
42
44
--
424 total dmg for 10 hits


Around the same damage, ever so slightly higher.

===============

My conclusions are obvious: Less than 1.0 of lj skill does in fact give a significant bonus to axe damage. You should also not believe everything that you read (and if you are still doubtful, feel free to test it yourself).

Edit: Also, if someone finds any faults with this test, please point them out. Thanks.
That is over a 30% damage increase.
 

as is

Wanderer
Re: lumberjack bonus question

Great test+1 to all, I love to see more because that's really affect the skill points to be allocated.
 

Christoff

Wanderer
Re: lumberjack bonus question

Bump.

So in conclusion. Can I have .1 LJ on an axer and get a reasonable bonus so I can have 99.9 magery?
 

LKP

Forum Member of the year 09'
Re: lumberjack bonus question

No one ever posted the results of a conclusive test.

Ten hits is not enough. I'd like to see the test run with at least 100 hits.

A thought just occured to me, to the first guy testing: You said you repaired the axe after each 10-hit test, but did you repair it before the very first one? If you looted that axe from another player, odds are it was damaged at the start.

Oh, and another thing that just pissed me off. I just looked at the character I planned to use for the test and found that he has 16.0 displayed lumberjacking from a stat bonus. Damage uses displayed numbers, not real ones, so I'd only be testing the difference between 16.0 and 16.1, which won't answer the question.

I suppose we would need a character with whatever stat it is that gives that bonus locked at 10... a new character made just for the test.
 

Aronelle

Wanderer
Re: lumberjack bonus question

wwebb;1588801 said:
Ok, instead of waiting and hoping someone may have done this already, I decided to find out for myself.

I did this test with my swords tank mage. He's 90 str, gm swords/tactics/anat. The weapon used was a +10 tactics vanq battle axe (found it the quickest in my house). The character I beat on was 100 str, 0 ar. I healed fully after each successful hit.

First round, no lumberjacking bonus, 10 hits

20
36
44
36
40
28
28
44
34
28
--
308 total dmg for 10 hits

Check ur math... I get 338.
 
Re: lumberjack bonus question

First off I would like to thank everyone for their efforts in understanding the Lumberjacker, the information provided here was very useful.

Now I have seen the BaseWeapon.cs code in the RunUO distro files. I know how the "distribution" LJing bonus works for both AoS and pre. Basically the default settings results in: (note: AoS and Pre AoS get these results via different methods, but both return the same results)

from 0.1 to 99.9
( player LJing skill * 20% ) which at 99.9 results in a 19.98% bonus. So for a 30 damage hit you would gain 19.98%, or 5.994 damage, for a total damage of 35.994 damage.

at GM ljing:
( player LJing skill * 20% ) which at 100 results in a 20% bonus, Then at GM you gain a 10% additional bonus. So for a 30 damage hit you would gain 30%, or 9 damage, for a total damage of 39 damage.

Below are code samples to validate this information.

AoS:
Code:
			double   lumberBonus = GetBonus( attacker.Skills[SkillName.Lumberjacking].Value,	0.200, 100.0, 10.00 );

			if ( Type != WeaponType.Axe )
				lumberBonus = 0.0;

Code:
		public virtual double GetBonus( double value, double scalar, double threshold, double offset )
		{
			double bonus = value * scalar;

			if ( value >= threshold )
				bonus += offset;

			return bonus / 100;
		}

which with the proper number plugged in results in this:

Code:
		public virtual double GetBonus( double value(100.0), double scalar(0.200), double threshold(100.0), double offset(10.00) )
		{
			double bonus = 100 * 0.200;

			if ( 100.0 >= 100.0 )
				bonus += 10.00;

			return bonus / 100;
		}

This basically calculates 20% of the players LJing skill, and multiplies the damage being delt by that 20% as long as the person is carrying an axe. however thanks to this section of code:

Code:
			if ( 100.0 >= 100.0 )
				bonus += 10.00;

if the person has GM LJing skill or over they recieve an additional 10% LJing bonus.

Pre AoS:
Code:
			/* Compute lumberjacking bonus
			 * : 1% bonus for every 5 points of lumberjacking
			 * : +10% bonus at Grandmaster or higher
			 */
			double lumberBonus;

			if ( Type == WeaponType.Axe )
			{
				double lumberValue = attacker.Skills[SkillName.Lumberjacking].Value;

				lumberBonus = (lumberValue / 5.0) / 100.0;

				if ( lumberValue >= 100.0 )
					lumberBonus += 0.1;
			}
			else
			{
				lumberBonus = 0.0;
			}

So basically this line of code:

Code:
				lumberBonus = (lumberValue / 5.0) / 100.0;

does lumberjacking skill (lets say 80) divided by 5 then devide the sum by 100:
(80 / 5) / 100 which equals 0.16 damage bonus (or 16%)... Then this line checks to see if your LJing skill is GM, and if so adds an additional 10% damage bonus:

Code:
				if ( lumberValue >= 100.0 )
					lumberBonus += 0.1;

So if you are GM Ljing your bonus will be (100 / 5) / 100 which equals 20% damage bonus plus the additional 10% damage for being GM which equals 30% overall damage. So if a LJer takes a swing at GM LJing and deals 30 damage he will end up hitting for 39 damage. The only difference between the AoS and Pre AoS methods is that AoS is an exact 20% cut of the LJing skill, while Pre AoS gives LJing bonus in 5.0 skill increments.

So in conclussion, assuming that LJing bonus is identical to the RunUO Distrobution files (which may or may not be the case) Your LJing bonus is a percentage of your LJing skill that caps at 30% damage increase at GM, but at the low levels you are talking about the bonus is statistically insignificant( (0.3 / 5) / 100 = 0.06% damage increase ) I hope this helps clear things up! :D
 

Lord Erebus

Wanderer
Re: lumberjack bonus question

vermillion2083;1667026 said:
So in conclussion, assuming that LJing bonus is identical to the RunUO Distrobution files (which may or may not be the case) Your LJing bonus is a percentage of your LJing skill that caps at 30% damage increase at GM, but at the low levels you are talking about the bonus is statistically insignificant( (0.3 / 5) / 100 = 0.06% damage increase ) I hope this helps clear things up! :D

Looks good to me! Great chance to freshen up on my programming classes back in college. The question that remains, however, is: Does RunUO use the same distribution files as AoS or Pre AoS code, or has it been tweaked somewhat to display different results as some tests have shown?
 
Re: lumberjack bonus question

Lord Erebus;1667230 said:
Looks good to me! Great chance to freshen up on my programming classes back in college. The question that remains, however, is: Does RunUO use the same distribution files as AoS or Pre AoS code, or has it been tweaked somewhat to display different results as some tests have shown?

Thank you kindly. :D Always nice to have a chance to freshen up some old skills. Personally I would guess more likely then not that they DO use this method of damage calculation. Hybrid development team is part of the RunUO project. RunUO's distro files duplicate OSI as closely as possible. This is why the core is built to run in both AoS mode and pre (among a few other choices). I don't see why they would alter this code since it has been researched and proven to be an exact reproduction of OSI game play. This is exactly how the LJing bonus worked right around the time factions were first introduced (20% bonus with an additional 10% at GM). To alter this code in any way would actually make the server less authentic, which is why I find it doubtful that they have modified it.

Granted this is all my opinion, but without a Hybrid development team member confirming or denying this claim all we can do is speculate.
 

Wraith1981

Wanderer
For anyone else who may stumble across this post and have some weird notion that .1 LJ will have any damage increase on a character.... I can absolve all guestimations...... If your are not human.. the .1 will not help you at all, no signifigant damage bonus ect.....

IF your Character is a Human --
you will receive a good bit of damage bonus with .1 LJ, because of the human trait in having 20 points in everything.. however the system does not calculate it until you have the .1 in the actual skill. then is calculates the Actual skill (.1) or inherent skill (20) whichever is higher and applys the damage.
 
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