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[Completed] Stat Gain Accuracy
- Thread starter slc517
- Start date
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Re: [DEFERRED] Stat Gain Accuracy
This post:
http://www.uodemise.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124051
is supposed to be a duplicate of the thread we're in now, but I thought the point of that one was that Necromancy wasn't causing stat gains at all. I'm seeing the same thing with Spellweaving.
I did a quick search for "stat" in the bug forum and am not seeing anything to do with specific skills not triggering stat gains. Although I vaguely recall reading a thread somewhere.
Found it:
http://www.uodemise.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123130
Doesn't seem anyone came to a conclusion one way or the other.
This post:
http://www.uodemise.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124051
is supposed to be a duplicate of the thread we're in now, but I thought the point of that one was that Necromancy wasn't causing stat gains at all. I'm seeing the same thing with Spellweaving.
I did a quick search for "stat" in the bug forum and am not seeing anything to do with specific skills not triggering stat gains. Although I vaguely recall reading a thread somewhere.
Found it:
http://www.uodemise.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123130
Doesn't seem anyone came to a conclusion one way or the other.
TravisMills
Sorceror
Re: [DEFERRED] Stat Gain Accuracy
I say since demise is supposed to be close to EA as possible up stat gains slow skill gains. It's a step needed to match EA shards. Let's do it and get it over with.
I say since demise is supposed to be close to EA as possible up stat gains slow skill gains. It's a step needed to match EA shards. Let's do it and get it over with.
osd_daedalus
Knight
Re: [DEFERRED] Stat Gain Accuracy
Fair or unfair, RunUO needs this. Maybe, coding wise, it would be good to make a boolean function "GGS", so people can decide if to use it or not.
About stats, it's... no delay at all?
Skills:
To be honest, when I was in OSI as a young player it seemed to me gains were really similar to Demise. About the rate, is it true?
What other is the GGS? For what I knew is like a cap "You can gain, for example, 80 skill points and then +0.1 each 20 hours" [values are invented, they must be validated]
We need to gather datas about
Fair or unfair, RunUO needs this. Maybe, coding wise, it would be good to make a boolean function "GGS", so people can decide if to use it or not.
About stats, it's... no delay at all?
Skills:
To be honest, when I was in OSI as a young player it seemed to me gains were really similar to Demise. About the rate, is it true?
What other is the GGS? For what I knew is like a cap "You can gain, for example, 80 skill points and then +0.1 each 20 hours" [values are invented, they must be validated]
We need to gather datas about
osd_daedalus
Knight
Re: [DEFERRED] Stat Gain Accuracy
oh screw what I just said
If we want to do it, we have to CORRECTLY tweak also how skills are gained, that is "chance to gain after a SUCCESFUL use of a skill", not "you gain much as your skill is near the minimum skill required" as it is in Demise.
Anyway, Stratics tells enough about:
http://uo.stratics.com/php-bin/show_content.php?content=30496
oh screw what I just said
If we want to do it, we have to CORRECTLY tweak also how skills are gained, that is "chance to gain after a SUCCESFUL use of a skill", not "you gain much as your skill is near the minimum skill required" as it is in Demise.
Anyway, Stratics tells enough about:
http://uo.stratics.com/php-bin/show_content.php?content=30496
silvertiger
Knight
Re: [CODER NEEDED] Stat Gain Accuracy
After making the dupe for me.
From what I saw stat gains are somewhat time limited. I saw a 1 stat type per skill(aka 1 of each stat per skill per 15 mins[not sure if this is right time frame, but it seems right since they had a 15 min time frame before and as soon as the 15 was up I got another stat in that particular skill]). Here's what I did. I was increasing necromancy, casting pain spike and wraith form, then meditating up, and when my life got a lil low I would spirit speak. As reported in the thread I duped, I saw int go up during a 15 min period once for use of each of the above skills(necro,ss,med) and I also saw str gains, but no dex. I am willing to do the research since there are so many shards that I can become a new char on. Tell me what specifically you want researched at a specific time(aka I am not going to test all the skills at once) I will do 2 or 3 skills at a time.
Seer Xavier;601776 said:
After making the dupe for me.
osd_daedalus;676756 said:About stats, it's... no delay at all?
Skills:
To be honest, when I was in OSI as a young player it seemed to me gains were really similar to Demise. About the rate, is it true?
What other is the GGS? For what I knew is like a cap "You can gain, for example, 80 skill points and then +0.1 each 20 hours" [values are invented, they must be validated]
We need to gather datas about
From what I saw stat gains are somewhat time limited. I saw a 1 stat type per skill(aka 1 of each stat per skill per 15 mins[not sure if this is right time frame, but it seems right since they had a 15 min time frame before and as soon as the 15 was up I got another stat in that particular skill]). Here's what I did. I was increasing necromancy, casting pain spike and wraith form, then meditating up, and when my life got a lil low I would spirit speak. As reported in the thread I duped, I saw int go up during a 15 min period once for use of each of the above skills(necro,ss,med) and I also saw str gains, but no dex. I am willing to do the research since there are so many shards that I can become a new char on. Tell me what specifically you want researched at a specific time(aka I am not going to test all the skills at once) I will do 2 or 3 skills at a time.
Re: [CODER NEEDED] Stat Gain Accuracy
Im just adding this list to make it easier to see without having to search much. The new system gives each skill a primary and secondary stat type. There is no time limit between gains you could gain a stat point every time you use the skill if you are lucky. Everytime you use a skill successfully you have a 1 in 20 chance to gain a stat point 75% chance for primary stat and 25% chance for secondary stat.
Here is the list of skills and stats:
Alchemy: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Anatomy: Primary= Int, Secondary= Str
Animal Lore: Primary= Int, Secondary= Str
Animal Taming: Primary= Str, Secondary= Int
Archery: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Str
Arms Lore: Primary= Int, Secondary= Str
Begging: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Blacksmith: Primary= Str, Secondary= Dex
Bowcraft/Fletching: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Str
Bushido: Primary= Str, Secondary= Int
Camping: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Carpentry: Primary= Str, Secondary= Dex
Cartography: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Chivalry: Primary= Str, Secondary= Int
Cooking: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Detect Hideen: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Discordance: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Evaluate Intelligence: Primary= Int, Secondary= Str
Fencing: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Str
Fishing: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Str
Focus: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Forensic Evaluation: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Healing: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Herding: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Hiding: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Insciption: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Item Identification: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Lockpicking: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Lumberjacking: Primary= Str, Secondary= Dex
Mace Fighting: Primary= Str, Secondary= Dex
Magery: Primary= Int, Secondary= Str
Meditation: Primary= Int, Secondary= Str
Mining: Primary= Str, Secondary= Dex
Musicianship: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Necromancy: Primary= Int, Secondary= Str
Ninjitsu: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Parrying: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Str
Peacemaking: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Poisoning: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Provocation: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Remove Trap: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Resisting Spells: Primary= Str, Secondary= Dex
Snooping: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
SpellWeaving: Primary= Int, Secondary= Str
Spirit Speak: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Stealing: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Stealth: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Swordsmanship: Primary= Str, Secondary= Dex
Tactics: Primary= Str, Secondary= Dex
Tailoring: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Taste Identification: Primary= Int, Secondary= Str
Tinkering: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Tracking: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Veterinary: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Wrestling: Primary= Str, Secondary= Dex
Im just adding this list to make it easier to see without having to search much. The new system gives each skill a primary and secondary stat type. There is no time limit between gains you could gain a stat point every time you use the skill if you are lucky. Everytime you use a skill successfully you have a 1 in 20 chance to gain a stat point 75% chance for primary stat and 25% chance for secondary stat.
Here is the list of skills and stats:
Alchemy: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Anatomy: Primary= Int, Secondary= Str
Animal Lore: Primary= Int, Secondary= Str
Animal Taming: Primary= Str, Secondary= Int
Archery: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Str
Arms Lore: Primary= Int, Secondary= Str
Begging: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Blacksmith: Primary= Str, Secondary= Dex
Bowcraft/Fletching: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Str
Bushido: Primary= Str, Secondary= Int
Camping: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Carpentry: Primary= Str, Secondary= Dex
Cartography: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Chivalry: Primary= Str, Secondary= Int
Cooking: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Detect Hideen: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Discordance: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Evaluate Intelligence: Primary= Int, Secondary= Str
Fencing: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Str
Fishing: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Str
Focus: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Forensic Evaluation: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Healing: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Herding: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Hiding: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Insciption: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Item Identification: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Lockpicking: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Lumberjacking: Primary= Str, Secondary= Dex
Mace Fighting: Primary= Str, Secondary= Dex
Magery: Primary= Int, Secondary= Str
Meditation: Primary= Int, Secondary= Str
Mining: Primary= Str, Secondary= Dex
Musicianship: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Necromancy: Primary= Int, Secondary= Str
Ninjitsu: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Parrying: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Str
Peacemaking: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Poisoning: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Provocation: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Remove Trap: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Resisting Spells: Primary= Str, Secondary= Dex
Snooping: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
SpellWeaving: Primary= Int, Secondary= Str
Spirit Speak: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Stealing: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Stealth: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Swordsmanship: Primary= Str, Secondary= Dex
Tactics: Primary= Str, Secondary= Dex
Tailoring: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Taste Identification: Primary= Int, Secondary= Str
Tinkering: Primary= Dex, Secondary= Int
Tracking: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Veterinary: Primary= Int, Secondary= Dex
Wrestling: Primary= Str, Secondary= Dex
Two Wolves
Knight
Re: [CODER NEEDED] Stat Gain Accuracy
On Demise, when you are training your characters stats:
using a particular skill can give stat gain awards in any stat
the line: " - All skills now have a primary and secondary stat."
seems to eliminate gaining in Dex from Arms Lore.
stat gain awards are limited to 4 per hour by a 15 minute cool-down
the line: "- There is no longer a cap on how many stat points you can gain in any given time period"
if the stat gain award is assigned to a stat that is locked, then the gain is lost
the line: "If the primary stat is not set to “gain”, the secondary stat will be chosen."
the stat gain award chance ratio on Demise, I calculate to be 1:40 instead of 1:20, but that may be "as designed" for demise.
the line: "- The chance that a stat will increase on any given skill gain is 1 in 20."
on demise you can get a stat gain award when the skill gain check does not result in skill gain and the skill is zero (or not at skill-cap)
the line: "Only when a player character advances in a skill or is at the skill cap for that skill, he/she may gain a stat point"
seems to eliminate the zero-gaining method and leaves only skill-cap-gaining or seesaw methods for stat training.
[Edit] if you have a stat set to lower, it can be drained when another gains when you are below your stat cap
reported by Nottheking
my tests and reports,
[DUPLICATE] Stat gain issues
Skill primary/secondary stats
On Demise, when you are training your characters stats:
using a particular skill can give stat gain awards in any stat
the line: " - All skills now have a primary and secondary stat."
seems to eliminate gaining in Dex from Arms Lore.
stat gain awards are limited to 4 per hour by a 15 minute cool-down
the line: "- There is no longer a cap on how many stat points you can gain in any given time period"
if the stat gain award is assigned to a stat that is locked, then the gain is lost
the line: "If the primary stat is not set to “gain”, the secondary stat will be chosen."
the stat gain award chance ratio on Demise, I calculate to be 1:40 instead of 1:20, but that may be "as designed" for demise.
the line: "- The chance that a stat will increase on any given skill gain is 1 in 20."
on demise you can get a stat gain award when the skill gain check does not result in skill gain and the skill is zero (or not at skill-cap)
the line: "Only when a player character advances in a skill or is at the skill cap for that skill, he/she may gain a stat point"
seems to eliminate the zero-gaining method and leaves only skill-cap-gaining or seesaw methods for stat training.
[Edit] if you have a stat set to lower, it can be drained when another gains when you are below your stat cap
reported by Nottheking
my tests and reports,
[DUPLICATE] Stat gain issues
Skill primary/secondary stats
cstewart
Squire
Re: [CODER NEEDED] Stat Gain Accuracy
Is this something that is still in debate or is it needing a fix. Looking it over, it looks like gain is pretty much decided by this code below. That is after you have successfully used a skill and it passed the 15 min wait since your last gain.
if ( skill.Lock == SkillLock.Up )
{
SkillInfo info = skill.Info;
if ( from.StrLock == StatLockType.Up && (info.StrGain / 33.3) > Utility.RandomDouble() )
GainStat( from, Stat.Str );
else if ( from.DexLock == StatLockType.Up && (info.DexGain / 33.3) > Utility.RandomDouble() )
GainStat( from, Stat.Dex );
else if ( from.IntLock == StatLockType.Up && (info.IntGain / 33.3) > Utility.RandomDouble() )
GainStat( from, Stat.Int );
}
Is this something that is still in debate or is it needing a fix. Looking it over, it looks like gain is pretty much decided by this code below. That is after you have successfully used a skill and it passed the 15 min wait since your last gain.
if ( skill.Lock == SkillLock.Up )
{
SkillInfo info = skill.Info;
if ( from.StrLock == StatLockType.Up && (info.StrGain / 33.3) > Utility.RandomDouble() )
GainStat( from, Stat.Str );
else if ( from.DexLock == StatLockType.Up && (info.DexGain / 33.3) > Utility.RandomDouble() )
GainStat( from, Stat.Dex );
else if ( from.IntLock == StatLockType.Up && (info.IntGain / 33.3) > Utility.RandomDouble() )
GainStat( from, Stat.Int );
}
cstewart
Squire
Re: [TESTING] Stat Gain Accuracy
The rate at which you gain skill is not directly changed by that code (If anything it will be indirectly slowed down at lower levels due to the fact that you must now successfully use a skill in order to be awarded a gain). Skill rates are controlled by a chance variable which gives you a higher chance the farther away from skill cap you are. This chance is then modified by this line **gc *= skill.Info.GainFactor; ** which allows you to individually tweak certain skills. Typically for skills like Arms Lore your GainFactor is 1 meaning it doesn't boost or lower your speed of gain. However harder skills like Blacksmithing I believe have a lower number something like .80 which would reduce your chance to gain a point of skill. The Guaranteed Skill Gain portion really only benefits players who play randomly (e.g only on the weekends). Someone who plays 3 days a week might play all 3 days to get a point whereas the person who logs into the game on Saturday would be caught up almost instantly due to his last gain being 5 days prior.
I'm not sure as to what comment crackhead was referring to and since Crimson mentioned skill rates being too fast I wanted to make sure the rate of skill gain was understood.
The rate at which you gain skill is not directly changed by that code (If anything it will be indirectly slowed down at lower levels due to the fact that you must now successfully use a skill in order to be awarded a gain). Skill rates are controlled by a chance variable which gives you a higher chance the farther away from skill cap you are. This chance is then modified by this line **gc *= skill.Info.GainFactor; ** which allows you to individually tweak certain skills. Typically for skills like Arms Lore your GainFactor is 1 meaning it doesn't boost or lower your speed of gain. However harder skills like Blacksmithing I believe have a lower number something like .80 which would reduce your chance to gain a point of skill. The Guaranteed Skill Gain portion really only benefits players who play randomly (e.g only on the weekends). Someone who plays 3 days a week might play all 3 days to get a point whereas the person who logs into the game on Saturday would be caught up almost instantly due to his last gain being 5 days prior.
I'm not sure as to what comment crackhead was referring to and since Crimson mentioned skill rates being too fast I wanted to make sure the rate of skill gain was understood.
Bama
Bug Huntress
Re: [CODER NEEDED] Stat Gain Accuracy
These are what I think the problem is on Demise in regards to stat gains
Staff has said we have accelerated skill gains but not accelerated stat gains
The players have accepted this the problems are as Two Wolves and nottheking posted
If I am going to macro Arms Lore to raise my stats to get the full benefit of this action all my stats need to be pointed upwards to gain
If I lock my Dex at 15 and just want my Str or Int to gain I run the risk of not gaining a stat every 15 minutes because if the stat gain is to go to Dex but Dex is locked it does not go to another stat.The gain is lost and you must wait 15 minutes for another stat gain.
Instead of getting 4 stat gains per hour you have now limited yourself to a max of 3 gains and a chance not to get a gain at all
Nottheking noticed that if you are at 225 stat points and use a +5 stat scroll and have a stat pointed down you may gain the stat you have pointed up but you also lose a stat because one is pointed down.
This is fine and how it should work if you are doing the see-saw method of adjusting your stats and are at stat cap
This is not fine if you have 225 stat points but have stat room to gain 5 more stats to make a total of 230
Your stats should not lower if you are not at stat cap
Here is an example of what is wrong with stat gaining or see-saw-ing
That 10 - 12 should have been 32 in that time span
Two Wolves;807991 said:
These are what I think the problem is on Demise in regards to stat gains
Staff has said we have accelerated skill gains but not accelerated stat gains
The players have accepted this the problems are as Two Wolves and nottheking posted
If I am going to macro Arms Lore to raise my stats to get the full benefit of this action all my stats need to be pointed upwards to gain
If I lock my Dex at 15 and just want my Str or Int to gain I run the risk of not gaining a stat every 15 minutes because if the stat gain is to go to Dex but Dex is locked it does not go to another stat.The gain is lost and you must wait 15 minutes for another stat gain.
Instead of getting 4 stat gains per hour you have now limited yourself to a max of 3 gains and a chance not to get a gain at all
Nottheking noticed that if you are at 225 stat points and use a +5 stat scroll and have a stat pointed down you may gain the stat you have pointed up but you also lose a stat because one is pointed down.
This is fine and how it should work if you are doing the see-saw method of adjusting your stats and are at stat cap
This is not fine if you have 225 stat points but have stat room to gain 5 more stats to make a total of 230
Your stats should not lower if you are not at stat cap
Here is an example of what is wrong with stat gaining or see-saw-ing
Grimm S;808778 said:
Bama;808781 said:
getting 10 - 12 stat gains in 8 hours is just plain wrong when you should get 4 every hour for 8 hoursGrimm S;808782 said:
That 10 - 12 should have been 32 in that time span
cstewart
Squire
Re: [TESTING] Stat Gain Accuracy
The original SkillCheck.cs file had several holes in the code that allowed situations where stat gain failed to assign due to stat locks or certain stats being set to down. The main things I set out to fix with the new code was:
*Stats lowering before you hit stat cap* -I removed it's random chance
*Any skill could raise any stat* -Skills now have a primary or secondary stat gain
*Stat gains assigned to a locked stat or a stat thats set to lower are lost* - Using the primary/secondary system eliminated the need for a random chance on each of the stats. This should remove losing a stat due to improper assignment. If your primary can't be assigned it will go to your secondary unless it's also unable to gain. This goes vice versa if your secondary can't be assigned it goes to the primary if it can gain. I'm assuming this is the way it's meant to be. It would allow you to be selective in your stats since you could lock the secondary and gain your primary every time you passed the 1/20 chance.
Also as a side note I removed the stat gain delay. You would have a 1/20 chance each time you SUCCESSFULLY use a skill to gain either that skill's primary or secondary stat. You can also now gain stats with maxed skills, previously there was a line of code that prevented max skills from giving you a chance at stats.
The original SkillCheck.cs file had several holes in the code that allowed situations where stat gain failed to assign due to stat locks or certain stats being set to down. The main things I set out to fix with the new code was:
*Stats lowering before you hit stat cap* -I removed it's random chance
*Any skill could raise any stat* -Skills now have a primary or secondary stat gain
*Stat gains assigned to a locked stat or a stat thats set to lower are lost* - Using the primary/secondary system eliminated the need for a random chance on each of the stats. This should remove losing a stat due to improper assignment. If your primary can't be assigned it will go to your secondary unless it's also unable to gain. This goes vice versa if your secondary can't be assigned it goes to the primary if it can gain. I'm assuming this is the way it's meant to be. It would allow you to be selective in your stats since you could lock the secondary and gain your primary every time you passed the 1/20 chance.
Also as a side note I removed the stat gain delay. You would have a 1/20 chance each time you SUCCESSFULLY use a skill to gain either that skill's primary or secondary stat. You can also now gain stats with maxed skills, previously there was a line of code that prevented max skills from giving you a chance at stats.
Two Wolves
Knight
Re: [TESTING] Stat Gain Accuracy
Currently the advice given to people who want to train stats is basically, get your skill points maxed out and macro away with Arms Lore at zero and pointed up.
The reason this (used to) work, because stat gain was triggered by the check to gain, not the actual gain itself. The problem being that it was allowed to check for skill gain and trigger stat gain when the skill was not at max.
I am planning on going to the TS to verify the line: "Only when a player character advances in a skill or is at the skill cap for that skill, he/she may gain a stat point" seems to eliminate the zero-gaining method and leaves skill seesaw as the best method for stat training.
cstewart;809895 said:
Currently the advice given to people who want to train stats is basically, get your skill points maxed out and macro away with Arms Lore at zero and pointed up.
The reason this (used to) work, because stat gain was triggered by the check to gain, not the actual gain itself. The problem being that it was allowed to check for skill gain and trigger stat gain when the skill was not at max.
I am planning on going to the TS to verify the line: "Only when a player character advances in a skill or is at the skill cap for that skill, he/she may gain a stat point" seems to eliminate the zero-gaining method and leaves skill seesaw as the best method for stat training.
cstewart
Squire
Re: [TESTING] Stat Gain Accuracy
Yea, it will need a lot of testing. I did some quick tests of the system and it seemed to work according to the posts made. There was a of situations to deal with to make sure players advanced when they should so I'm sure there will be a few strange ones left in there. One thing I did notice during my tests is that when you have a 100% chance to gain skills or stats that first stat point after a restart can be off. That may be a Serial/De-Serial issue with the mobiles.
Yea, it will need a lot of testing. I did some quick tests of the system and it seemed to work according to the posts made. There was a of situations to deal with to make sure players advanced when they should so I'm sure there will be a few strange ones left in there. One thing I did notice during my tests is that when you have a 100% chance to gain skills or stats that first stat point after a restart can be off. That may be a Serial/De-Serial issue with the mobiles.
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