[SVN 657] Darts & Shurikens: Shouldn't hit 100% with 50 Ninjitu skill

[drak-]

[CODER NEEDED] Darts & Shurikens: Shouldn't hit 100% with 50 Ninjitu skill

on OSI darts miss a lot at 50 ninja. They miss some even at 120.

OSI trial:
At 50 ninja vs 0 wrestle, I missed 6 out of 10.
At 50 ninja vs 120 wrestle, I only landed one out of a 10 dart load.
At 120 ninja vs 0 wrestle, I landed a dart ALMOST every time on the victim.
At 120 ninja vs 120 wrestle, it seemed less than 50% chance to land a dart.

It seems combat checks apply to darts, as well as some kind of base skill check

Also, if the stack of darts is considerably larger than the # of poison charges on the stack of darts, the fuki will only load 1 poison

I dont know about demise on this one, but noted a 1.25s delay between uses.

ALSO: on OSI darts do the "explode" particles on the victim whether they hit or not.... retarded, but notable, i guess.

NOTE: shuriken seem the same.

 

[darthjesus]

Re: darts: miss a lot at 50

thank you

 

[drak-]

Re: darts: miss a lot at 50

bump: shuriken too!

 

[crackhead]

Re: [CODER NEEDED] Darts & Shurikens: Shouldn't hit 100% with 50 Ninjitu skill

did you try em with hci/dci or parry? if i remember right they all factored in just like someone was attacking you with a weapon.

 

[Bama]

Re: [CODER NEEDED] Darts & Shurikens: Shouldn't hit 100% with 50 Ninjitu skill

Darts and stars (at 50.0 skill in ninjitsu) should hit the same as a katana would if you had 50.0 skill in swordsmanship.Or a dagger would with 50.0 in fencing or a club would if you had 50.0 in mace fighting or an arrow or bolt would with 50.0 skill in archery
Ninjitsu is the weapon skill for these items and having 50.0 skill in ninjitsu should not let you hit very often let alone 100% of the time
Hit chance and defensive chance for stars and darts should work the same as any other melee weapon skill

 

[Nottheking]

Re: [CODER NEEDED] Darts & Shurikens: Shouldn't hit 100% with 50 Ninjitu skill

So in other words, attacking someone with a dart or shuriken is treated as if it were a melee attack, just with ninjitsu as the weapon skill?

 

[Bama]

Re: [CODER NEEDED] Darts & Shurikens: Shouldn't hit 100% with 50 Ninjitu skill

...

 

[Bama]

Re: [CODER NEEDED] Darts & Shurikens: Shouldn't hit 100% with 50 Ninjitu skill

I went to Despise on osi test center here are results with 50.0 ninjitsu using stars
I hit 1 out of 7
At 120.0 ninjitsu
0 out of 3
You can barely make out the gray stars in most shots
I had 0 HCI. Anyone know what Ettin's have for DCI?
I will put up some 50.0 swords shots

 

[Bama]

Re: [CODER NEEDED] Darts & Shurikens: Shouldn't hit 100% with 50 Ninjitu skill

50.0 swords 0 HCI I hit the Ettin once out of 8 swings
I had to leave and come back to heal

 

[gilgamash]

Re: [CODER NEEDED] Darts & Shurikens: Shouldn't hit 100% with 50 Ninjitu skill

I think the main problem is that they are implemented as skill items rather than weapons...

 

[osd_daedalus]

Re: [CODER NEEDED] Darts & Shurikens: Shouldn't hit 100% with 50 Ninjitu skill

lookie lookie what I have found...

http://vboards.stratics.com/uo-warrior/105433-fukiya-shuriken-hit-chances.html

According to these guys, it all depends by Ninjitsu and maybe HCI from the attacker side, opposing to target bushido, parry and DCI. Hmm...

 

[crackhead]

Re: [CODER NEEDED] Darts & Shurikens: Shouldn't hit 100% with 50 Ninjitu skill

im pretty sure it uses ninja as a weapon skill and hci,dci,parry all are used like any other weapon skill. when i played osi i had a parry fencer and darts missed me like 80% of the time. when i played a mage with lower dci and no parry i got hit alot more.

 

[gilgamash]

Re: [CODER NEEDED] Darts & Shurikens: Shouldn't hit 100% with 50 Ninjitu skill

According to these guys, it all depends by Ninjitsu and maybe HCI from the attacker side, opposing to target bushido, parry and DCI. Hmm...

Well, that makes sense! I mean, why should dodging those items depend on Ninjitsu or Bushido? If you are dextrous and have HCI, that should be the relevant!

If we can get any sort of proof, decent statistice/ empiric information and get the core developers/ admins to agree (intrinsic hint), I would like to consider this patch my job.

However, I wold also like to know -- again from admin's/ core dev's point of view -- whether we should reimplement those items as weaps.

G.

 

[gilgamash]

Any idea about Swingspeed and whether it is influenced by SSI, DivineFury, Honoring a creature, you name it?

And: Are Darts/ Shuriken comparable to other ranged weapos on OSI, i.e. can you run while throwing them?

 

[gilgamash]

So here another thing: I just checked the BaseWeapon.cs code a little, and from what I can see:
1) The hit chance is determined based on BOTH the weapon skill of the currently armed weapon of the attacker and that of the defender.
2) Parry only comes into play when the hit was a success.

How should this be modeled with shurikens/ darts? Bascially, if the hit chance is determined solely on the attackers Ninjutsi and the defenders Parry skill (including HCI/DCI thingies),
this is still not yet balanced when compared to ordinary weapons, as there are two "obstacles" on the attacker's side: the defender's weapon skill AND the parry skill.

Any suggestions?

What about spells like Hit Lightning? Or Consecrate? Do they have an effect no shurikens/ darts?

Thanks for information,
G.

 

[gilgamash]

As this bug this to be "abused"/ exploited atm, maybe some preliminary patch is enough, which is a skill check ninja 100 or 120 instead of 50 and perhaps an additional parry check. HCI/DCI and all the rest can follow later. Let me know, if this is reasonable, I think I could do that tomorrow.Would be nice to get an opinion of some GM here...

 

[gilgamash]

Here we go with a first version that

1) Compares attacker\s Ninjitsu to target's Parrying.
Examples: Target Parry 70 plus DCI 15 from armor, Attacker Ninjtsu 110: approx. 80% chance.
2) Includes Animal Form, Surprise Attack, HitLowerAttack influence and Discordance influence in the same manner as normal weaps do. Paladins Divine Fury spell has no effect, which can easily be changed. I need more information about these things, see aforeposted entries of mine.

Shurikens and Darts do NOT YET share one timer, which is to be addresed in the next version.

This patch is to be understood preliminary to prevent further exploits of the current situation.

Regards,
G.

 

[gilgamash]

Oops, forgot to delete the output of the chances which I used for testing.

Here the correct patch.

Tested it and it workes. If you want to get an impression of the new chances, apply the patch of the previous post instead...

G.

 

[Xavier]

Oops. I was recoding these things anyway, because of several things about them. Like you, I also added the combat checks from baseweapon, sortof.... but only the AoS combat rules because they dont exist until SE, and the Surprise Attack check isnt needed here..

But there were other issues, such as: On OSI the poison charges dont get used unless your hit is successful, but they do get cleared if you let the weapon run to zero uses left.

Tons of redundant code which I consolidated into a static NinjaWeapon class, and created the INinjaWeapon and INinjaAmmo interfaces.

Also I recoded some of the functions, including reload. <- test loading!

I guess thats one more mad at me

 

[gilgamash]

Nah, not mad at you. Not a nice move, but its ok. Tbh, the most important thing for me here was to help players who were victims of others exploiting this, and to be honest again: If you coded it, too, having information I did not have (or was waiting for -- as you can see I asked several questions which remained unanswered), it is fine as the most important thing is that it will stop being a nerf. Agree?

However, in general I would like to have a felling of working together instead of being a burden, that is all

So in the eyes of working together: Your patch still seems to have two different timers for darts and shuriken -- should we chage that?

Best wishes,
G.