30 July 2014 - Shard News Update

[Boomshakalaka]

Even still, with anatomy on every alchy stun template and being able to hit special attacks, you'll see alchy stuns running around axing people attempting to get conc blows. And it happens frequent enough to make it viable and worthwhile doing. This will overall buff the alchy playstyle more than 'even things out'.

You'll have to make more changes than just instahit to make dexxers viable. Or haphazard hybrids as gimp would like to point out. AKA, a true boring style of play. Have you seen on youtube some of the duels hybrids have held? 3m + of waiting for a monster hit. No thanks.

 

[GimpCent]

Even still, with anatomy on every alchy stun template and being able to hit special attacks, you'll see alchy stuns running around axing people attempting to get conc blows. And it happens frequent enough to make it viable and worthwhile doing. This will overall buff the alchy playstyle more than 'even things out'.

You'll have to make more changes than just instahit to make dexxers viable. Or haphazard hybrids as gimp would like to point out. AKA, a true boring style of play. Have you seen on youtube some of the duels hybrids have held? 3m + of waiting for a monster hit. No thanks.

http://uo.stratics.com/content/arms-armor/combat.php


You have 10% chance to hit so... Let's look at the math behind your shit

1 out of 10 swings will land, out of that only 25% will conc blow. So it would take 40 swings to get one conc blow. What fight have you seen that even lasts that long? Do you really think this will be a problem? We have facts we dont need to fear much if you guys just cut the bullshit.

Hybrids are tank mages. Again they have nothing to do with dexxers why do you keep going back to that?

Hybrid duels are great have you seen YouTube videos of folks just chasing each other around tossing pots.... That isn't a reason and no one is saying we want just one template we want more templates than just one. Alchy Stun vs Hybrid would be super interesting

 

[Boomshakalaka]

Conc blows happen even without a weapon hit. Its probably right around a 10-15% chance of hitting, without the weapon skill. You seem to think this is minimal, if instahit/swing is implemented thats about a 30 second fight until somebody is conc blowed. And thats just average luck.

Once somebody is conc blowed, it lasts for what, 30 seconds? And no mana refunded? Really gimpy, no pun intended.

Stunning for instance is a 25-30% chance. Yet only lasts for 2.5 seconds.

You can lie to yourself all you want, but instaswing/hit will just boost alchemy templates even more.

 

[GimpCent]

I did the math.... Its 1 out of 40 swings, no need to guess we have facts. Out of that 40 swings 36 will miss doing no damage and stopping your meditation bonus passive. Do you think a mage is going to spend his time doing this to miss 36 times? Do you really think this would be a problem?

I posted you the URL so you can do it yourself

 

[Boomshakalaka]

I can tell you from experience that conc blows happen way more often than 1/40 swings.

I doubt stratics is even hybrid accurate.

I'll hunt down a good axe and test it.

 

[Boomshakalaka]

Now that I'm thinking about it, even DP weapons have a good chance of dropping on somebody. The combos would be real.

 

[Boomshakalaka]

With a golden battle axe, im dealing atleast 8 damage every 1/4 hits when the alchy stun has no armor.

without armor:
First conc blow happened at 27th swing
second happened at the 4th swing
third on the 2nd swing
4th on the 43rd swing
5th on the 18th swing
6th one the 8th swing

I put armor(21) on and while the damage hits go down significantly;
1st conc blow on 4th swing
2nd on 7th swing
3rd on 19th swing
4th on 13th swing
5th on 20th swing
6th hit on the 10th swing

Surprisingly, I actually had more conc blows with armor then I did without. Obviously, with an even better weapon, the odds would have been greater.

Chalk it up to luck? Test it yourself.

With 2 players capable of this method, somebody will be conc blowed quick.

I understand that holding a weapon increases the chance to be stunned, but a conc blow is a game winner. Somebody could easily use this tactic to troll in an event/duel, and be pretty successful with it. Because not only do they lose half their mana, their mana regen slows by a lot.

I'd really like to test this with a valorite weapon as well.

 

[GimpCent]

With no weapon skill points you hit 10% of the time again gm....

You have a 25% chance of a special happening. We already know these numbers so you can do the math. Its simple. Its 1 out of 40 unless I did something wrong. Maybe I did

 

[DragonSlayer69r]

That math is just you standing next to a target.

Which doesn't happen.

That math is also the results of our system right now. If it's so good, how come _no one_ is doing that?

because they are going to miss out on mana, and get stunned.

It's silly.

 

[Boomshakalaka]

That math is just you standing next to a target.

Which doesn't happen.

That math is also the results of our system right now. If it's so good, how come _no one_ is doing that?

because they are going to miss out on mana, and get stunned.

It's silly.

Standing next to somebody? with insta hit/swing thats like tapping somebody with a harm. Easily done.

No one does it now because it isn't instahit/swing.

And gimpcent, im not sure if the math is right, but that is the numbers I tested. You can try it yourself, preferably with a valorite weapon to get get a better understanding what it will be like in the duel pits/events.

 

[GimpCent]

Were you hitting a person with no weapon skill or something? Cause your results aren't even close to what logic says they should be. Something is wrong

 

[DragonSlayer69r]

Were you hitting a person with no weapon skill or something? Cause your results aren't even close to what logic says they should be. Something is wrong

Check it.

Out of 171 (hits)
He landed 12 concs.

That's 20.52% of his hits were concussion blows. Which is about in line.

Now the real quesiton is, how many times did you swing in total?

You've only listed hits. And considering with 0 skill vs a gm wrestler you have a 10% chance to hit them.

So one could say you swung 1,710 times.

And at 3.25 swing delay at 35 dex(which I assume you have on a stun alchy)

That is 5557.5 seconds of waiting, or 92 mins, or an hour and a half. Not including the time it takes to regen stam or drink a pot or however you refill stamina, Or changing weapons.

Point is, I don't believe you actually tested it. With BARELY enough time between your post, I just don't believe you did.

No disrespect of course.

 

[Boomshakalaka]

i counted swings as hits.

Feel free to test this with your own 2 alchy stuns. Please one of you rich guys use a valorite weapon vs a gold weapon to see the difference.

[/QUOTE]Out of 171 (hits)
He landed 12 concs.

That's 20.52% of his hits were concussion blows. Which is about in line.[/quote]

Armor, at least for my tests, proved like it had no significant negative effect on special weapon hits. While my sample was small, it actually seemed to better the chances.

 

[Boomshakalaka]

Were you hitting a person with no weapon skill or something? Cause your results aren't even close to what logic says they should be. Something is wrong

I was swinging against an alchy stun. Conc blow rates seem about a 15-20% success rate, and with 2 alchy stuns using it against each other, somebody will most likely be conc blowed within the first 30 seconds of a duel.

I can run the test some more in a bit, but I'd like for you guys to test it as well.

In 171 swings, I landed 12 conc blows.

 

[GimpCent]

I was swinging against an alchy stun. Conc blow rates seem about a 15-20% success rate, and with 2 alchy stuns using it against each other, somebody will most likely be conc blowed within the first 30 seconds of a duel.

I can run the test some more in a bit, but I'd like for you guys to test it as well.

In 171 swings, I landed 12 conc blows.

171 swings a lot of swings when you are healing etc. I think you greater unstate how long that would take to swing that much with 25 Dex.

I fail now to see what problem you still have with hybrids?

 

[Boomshakalaka]

171 swings a lot of swings when you are healing etc. I think you greater unstate how long that would take to swing that much with 25 Dex. Fights just dont last like that you clearly never played OSI pre AoS or anything of the like. You dont understand that the odds of a special hit is a flat 25% armor doesn't change that. You dont seem to understand how these skills currently work. You repeated referred to a hybrid as helping dexxers showing you have nearly no clue on what the template even is.

We know the math its 1 out of 40 hits will be a conc blow with the one hybrid that has anatomy. If you hit every 10 secs on avg (25 Dex is 4 secs but you won't be next to your enemy all the time + casting shit. That is a conc blow once every 40 mins. Which into the fight matters even less before you will be below or near 50 mama anyways. It allows for strategy something you folks seem to have forgot in the age of macros and cheat clients.

Honestly, with a dex pot at 50 agility, you can swing every 3 seconds. Landing a conc blow against another alchy stun is roughly a 10-20% odd, and with two players attempting it, it's only a matter of about 30 seconds before somebody is statistically going to be conc blowed. All the while, you can still toss pots, small spell, and heal efficiently.

It would still come down to playstyle, because effectively you won't stun as often, but with a conc blow the fight is 99% over.

And in my mind, dexxers are weapon wielders. Let's be real, adding magery 4x doesn't magically make him into a mage. No pun intended.

I really wish that you weren't so blindly wanting to debate my argument, and admitting that it would definitely be a viable option, and would do little to benefit your cause of helping the dexxers/tank mage.

please, test it.

 

[GimpCent]

Its not roughly 10-20% we already know its 25%. What dont you get that we already know the math.

 

[amtothepm]

you baddies that want insta-swing don't even PVP, this is mind blowing to me that NON-PVPERS are even suggesting

PVP change...you forum warriors are experts on everything

 

[GimpCent]

Its 100 into 100 str 25 Dex its caused a Hybrid/Tank Mage

Its

Magery
Resist
Eval
Med
Tactics
Swords
Anatomy

That isn't a dexxer its called a swords mage or battlemage by another word. Lore wise in Ultima it is what we all played. I have played Ultima since Ultima 6 and have been a Battlemage ever before coming here. Tank Mages were the primary PvP class on OSI up until Age of Shadows.

We didn't have classes build around trade skills, there was strategy and we had to get up close. You folks just want to stript and use your macros. There is more skill locked up tank mages then what you pretend alchy mages have. Our target moves and we dont have a heatseeking pot we need to get up close. Our damage isn't promised vs gm anything we have a 50% chance to hit every 3-4 secs. You with alchy currently have a 100% chance to do the same damage for the same 3-4 secs.

What are you scared about? Even with insta hit its not like we get heatseeking Hally's that ignore all armor values? Logically you dont have a point and the math proves it as well.

 

[GimpCent]

you baddies that want insta-swing don't even PVP, this is mind blowing to me that NON-PVPERS are even suggesting

PVP change...you forum warriors are experts on everything

I have pvped more than you and the same with Dragon..... What's your point?