RFC: Reds and Towns

[iamjack]

Re: RFC: Reds and Towns

At first I didnt mind reds in town but lately people gating in like five naked reds to exp eb a bunch of people is just retarded, anybody that tries to argue that is just weird, anyways I agree with the proposed changes.

just want to point out 1 thing
well... they would be able to do the same thing even after this ridiculous chance lol....
don't forget why osi fall lol....becoz they ban pk and create trammel
i don't want to see the same or similar shit happen once again

 

[GimpCent]

Re: RFC: Reds and Towns

It's the first step in that direction.. The direction which ruined UO in the first place.

What is wrong with reds being in town? You'll get PK'd macroing afk? Most reds don't do that anyways.. It's almost always a blue with few counts that will kill you.

You don't want to attack a red then chase him out of town and run into 5 more? Don't attack reds if you don't want to die. They can't kill you unless you attack first.

KEEP REDS IN GUARD PROTECT UNDER THE SAME RULES AS IS. No experienced pvper would vote for this change.. Only PVMers, which there are no monsters in town to begin with. I was under the impression that this was a PVP based server.

I'm sorry but I'm still missing something why do reds need to be in guardzone again? That it would matter to you so much one way or another?

 

[iamjack]

Re: RFC: Reds and Towns

There's nothing wrong with playing in Buc's or Ocllo. PVP doesn't revolve around Britain bank.

Some of the best fights I've ever had on this shard were in Destard, far, far, far, far away from any guard zone.

EDIT:

The reason 1000 people have viewed this but only 200 people have voted is simple: 80% of people are actually thinking about it, 20% are panicking and going crazy about a mere 'IDEA'.

it is becoz thous 20% clicked this topic 5 times or more....

 

[Countessa]

Re: RFC: Reds and Towns

When reds were first allowed into towns, I was all for the idea. I believed it would increase pvp. That it would make the shard more interesting. Unfortunately that is not the case.

It has had a harmful effect on pvp. While not the only cause of the complaints we see uttered as of late, it is a contributing factor.
Instead of it increasing pvp in towns, it has only increased griefing behavior. Players rarely band together to clean out the reds that wander in. I've seen reds stand at WBB completely left alone by the mass of blues only tiles away. Instead we have reds ganking in town. As a 'trammy' blue player, I can go to Bucc's without any fear of death. It's often safer than Britain.
Many of you think this is a step towards trammel but reds being coddled on the server and allowed free reign is a step towards trammel too.
If the outcome had been different, I would disagree with this. But imo the majority of reds on this server have become a bunch of babies. It's time to step up to the plate or bow out.

In regard to change in general. It's time. Change is not bad. Change keeps it interesting.

I like all the suggestions with no comment on moongates. I really have no opinion on these since I never use them.

An alternative to the grace period could be guards that are not insta-kill. This would have a slightly different effect. Overall I like the grace period better.

For all those freaking out, keep this in mind. Anything that is changed can always be changed back if it turns out ugly.

 

[JesseJane]

Re: RFC: Reds and Towns

If you can take care of the faction hoppers to where we wouldnt have to guard sigs on reds, id be all for this idea.

 

[NoLenity]

Re: RFC: Reds and Towns

99%of these relpies are so lame and air-headed I dont know how you people function in life... Does anybody think before they hit the reply button or are they just attempting to get some attention?

1. I was un-aware that this was "designated" as a PvP server... If thats what it was, why are there monsters? Treasure maps? Escorts? Yeah, its not designated as a PvP server...

2. Anybody who wants to PvP is either OUT THERE PvP'ing or NOT ONLINE. Anybody who does NOT want to PvP is doing something ELSE! Does that make sense? I have a few PvP characters, and when I want to fight, I go FIGHT. When I DONT want to fight, Im usually hanging out in town or out farming... Now, if I DONT want to fight, why am I faulted for hanging out in town? I never saw anything from the admins that said that I HAVE to be PvP'ing 100% of the time I am online or else I am banned... If you cant understand what I said, I said, "This is why there are guards..."

3. If reds were not allowed in town at ALL, even without a grace period IT WOULDNT CHANGE MUCH WOULD IT! Anybody IN town doesnt want to fight for the most part. Anybody OUTSIDE town, DOES usually. So why is there this big fuss about keeping reds out of town? If you want to be in town, dont be RED! The only reason that reds would want to be in town that I can see if to cheap shot that poor blue with low health.


If you want a way to fix this, and I dont know if its possible or not...

1. Let the reds stay in town like it is now.
2. Let them fight people that attack them in town, like it is now.
3. Anytime a red tries to preform a negative action on a blue in a guard zone, block the action... Make it say "You cannot do that here" or something...

There, now reds can be in town, and they can fight, but that cant be lame pricks and gate in 10 people to kill a few poor noobs that are just hanging out macroing snooping or something stupid.

Sorry if this is a bit long or crude but I shot my hand with an air naileer today at work and im a bit on the cranky side. You all need to qquit your whining, I do believe this is supposed to be a constructive poll and thread...

 

[Lintaglen]

Re: RFC: Reds and Towns

I love how all the reds turn into such whiny carebears, wanting the rules to bend over and pander to them even when it makes no sense. I personally wouldn't mind players calling "guards" on reds in guardzones, but I'm not a fan of the NPC insta-kill for wandering a step over the border.

Great way of using your words, but lemme break this down for ya.

You say the reds are the whining carebears because we don't want this obvious nerf, but thats because the PK's are rejecting this idea. If the admins where to post something about taking guard zones out of smaller towns such as Minoc, blues would whine and cry about it to, thus making them seem carebear. Or how about this as a better example.. when the admins first posted that they where going to allow reds into town, I bet the blues whined and cried seeming a rather carebear, by your standards at least.

I've read all the posts and I agree there would be some interesting stuff, but it still does not outweigh the end outcome to me.

Someone posted earlier that they where on a miner, and after starting combat outside of guards, they couldn't call guards when they reached town. You have to let the person hit you while in town to call guards, and the guards will take care of the fool stupid enough to chase you into town.. This is currently active on the shard.

Also everyone who made a post about the views on this poll... every time you open this poll it adds a count to the view, even if you've opened it more than once... 1,400 people have not read this post...I've opened this poll several times myself, as I'm sure others have as well.

I honestly don't see what the big deal is with reds being in town in the first place. It gives us something to do, and if you are at least smart enough not to attack us in town unless your 100% sure you can kill us, then it should never have been a problem.

Reds with no penalties is "Trammel". If you guys can't handle a challenge, thats fine. Just don't piss and moan and call it something it isn't.

And Mark.. this is being Trammy for the blues... You mean to tell me that if someone attacks me, and hauls ass to the guard lines and gets inside town, I can't go in and kill him? Reds with no penalties doesn't even count as Trammel. It means those blues (and other reds not associated with each other) need to watch their asses. I'll say it again.. if the person is foolish enough to attack a red, they better be prepared for a fight, and not try to pansy out of it. THUS making them trammel...

 

[I_have_fans]

Re: RFC: Reds and Towns

3. Anytime a red tries to preform a negative action on a blue in a guard zone, block the action... Make it say "You cannot do that here" or something...

There, now reds can be in town, and they can fight, but that cant be lame pricks and gate in 10 people to kill a few poor noobs that are just hanging out macroing snooping or something stupid.

------------

Sorry for messing up the quote.. But this is the compromise that should have been proposed. This man is brilliant.

 

[glowing nougat]

Re: RFC: Reds and Towns

with 15 seconds wouldn't reds still be able to gate in and town kill afk people?

sorry if this has been posted already but doing this doesn't fix the problem

 

[Lintaglen]

Re: RFC: Reds and Towns

If you want a way to fix this, and I dont know if its possible or not...

1. Let the reds stay in town like it is now.
2. Let them fight people that attack them in town, like it is now.
3. Anytime a red tries to preform a negative action on a blue in a guard zone, block the action... Make it say "You cannot do that here" or something...

There, now reds can be in town, and they can fight, but that cant be lame pricks and gate in 10 people to kill a few poor noobs that are just hanging out macroing snooping or something stupid.

This I agree with completely though.

This is a good idea in my opinion. Guy should get a medal for that suggestion

 

[a.bully]

Re: RFC: Reds and Towns

Why not allow reds into towns? If they attack blues they are guard wacked instantly anyway....This is a stupid idea and makes absolutely no sense....

If you are red, and you go into town, most likely you will get ganked or left alone...

Leave it how it is.

 

[drealm]

Re: RFC: Reds and Towns

My suggestions:

[1]

Eliminate guards completely. People will be forced to bond together and fight against reds.

[2]

Then make NPC town vendors or healers hard for reds to kill so that basic town infrastructure wont be killed off. Do this by increasing all stats and skills to some insanely high amount like 300 dex/str/int with 200 7x skills in a defense worthy template. Whole point here being we don't wan't people to be unable to use basic town functions like getting a rez because reds have killed the healer.

[3]

Create something along the lines of a factions system where in place of guards you can declare yourself loyal to a town stone in that town. These town stones would soley be a guild to defend the town. You would not be seen as green to other people who clicked the stone. Nor would you be seen as orange to other towns. This would soley be for people who want to defend a specific town against reds. Only requirement being you cannot be red or be in the theifs guild. Maybe something with that justice system on the paperdoll could be incorporated.

[4]

People who joined the town stones would earn special gold from the reds who they killed inside of town. The gold would soley be for buying guards or other things from a specific vendor.

[5]

"Guards"

Guards would not be invincible and would not do instant kills, but would be permanately visable untill killed and would atack reds on sight. Nothing of value would be on guards corpses. Guards would be mounted and would be able to survive huge synchronised mage dumps, bladespirits and common luring tricks. Subsequently the stats would need to be insanely high 1500 str/ 500 int/ 150 dex. They would need to be 125 skill in a 7x or more defensable template. And they would need to be good enough AI to dispell easy kill tricks like casting 20 bladespirits on a guard.

[6]

"Hard Doors"

Other things you can buy would be "Hard Doors". Hard doors could be bought and placed wherever current opening entrances or normal doors to buildings inside towns are. Only blues would be able to open hard doors from the outside, however if the door was left open reds could enter the building and open the doors from the inside but would still never be able to open the doors from outside. The whole point here being, people could bunker inside buildings if needed and traveling from one part of a town to another would be would as dangerous as leaving it. Who knows maybe gangs would emerge over certain sections of the city.

[7]

"Traps"

Borrow some traps from factions or create entirely new ones to be bought by people who joined the town stone and used against reds within the boundries of town.

[8]

Create a prison. The prison would need to be possible to escape but not easy. Murdurers and theifs would go here under certain conditions. Maybe those conditions would be, being killed by a guard or being beheaded and having your head turned in.

[9]

Theifs would be a menace. To counteract the menace theifs would automatically be flagged gray after stealing items. Whether the items were successfully stolen or not, they would allways be flagged gray to everyone for attempting stealing. Guards would atack theifs on sight.

Note:

I would like to say I don't expect any of these ideas to be implemented, not even partially. These are just far fetched ideas, I merely them because to explore some possibilities that triggered my thinking while reading all of the back and fourth arguments. Most likely I'll be flamed from one end of the spectrum or the other, so be it.

 

[Ajax]

Re: RFC: Reds and Towns

Why do reds want to be in guard zones anyways?

Bankers won't let reds bank why should guards let player killers into town?

Heavy, last I knew we didn't have a red problem we had more of a player problem currently

So if you are attacked by a blue he can't just run into the guard zone at 1/2 hp? So you can still continue to chase him and finish what he started

 

[M-Demon]

Re: RFC: Reds and Towns

Wow, do you also write lengthy diatribes when people refer to something as gay, when they really just mean bad?

You do realize that calling someone a trammie just means "you suck" or "youre a noob" right?

Also congratulations on playing UO when it came out, certainly you were the only one on this shard to do that. Please tell us ALL about OSI UO, cause I'm sure we haven't played it.

No. People are using the term trammel in this sense to say "Go back and play OSI Trammel". They are not saying "Go back to OSI nub". See the difference?

My post isn't boasting about how long I played UO. Never did I say "I played from this day and because of that blah blah". All I am doing is showing people that these rule sets always existed. Reds were never allowed in towns and reds had stat loss. All I see are some people crying because their red isn't allowed in town when they never really were supposed to be allowed in town and then they call someone a "trammel lover" because someone else is defending the era Hybrid hopes to emulate in a more accurate manner.

I also saw you post something else about red/blue wars and lack of organization. Here's the current problem. Because reds have it so easy on this server there are a ton of them. There are far more reds here than on OSI during this era. The majority of people during this era did not have reds - although on Hybrid it seems they do. The reason is because there really is no consequence for being a red. And because of that, you have an increased red population. What that leads too is reds being a common occurance. Red's were not "I go walk into town or outside somewhere and see 20 PKers within the hour" on OSI.

I'm with you on the point about seeing red/blue wars. But the problem is right now - no one gives a damn when they see a red because its just like "Oh, another red - who isn't one?" They have become such a common occurance on Hybrid that it's totally destroyed the whole "mass up and go kill the murderer that your local miner was screaming about!"

Instead someone sees a red here and doesn't even bat an eye.

And as for stat loss, it was around both before and after the days of 2 hit weapons and para ganks. Reds really became less prominent when Trammel was introduced because it cut down UO's already declining population and allowed all the people that reds killed, usually miners/dungeon guys, and helpless people, to do their thing in safety. No more people = no one more to kill = no more reds. We don't have that problem here. Plenty of people and no trammel. I also believe the addition of factions cut down into reds because more people were focusing on that when they first came around. In t2a, reds were not the FOCUS on PvP. There were many other means of PvP, all which were more popular than fighting PK's. The only time PKs were the #1 source of PvP on UO was during the Dread days.

 

[bfddlolwtf]

Re: RFC: Reds and Towns

M-Demon, this server has a similar rule set to Siege and there is/was a LOT of red players on Siege.

 

[M-Demon]

Re: RFC: Reds and Towns

M-Demon, this server has a similar rule set to Siege and there is/was a LOT of red players on Siege.

It follows certain aspects of Siege. The main difference here being that you don't have 1 character per account such as on Siege and instead have 4 free accounts with 5 character slots per. You also have extremely fast skill gain here compared to the limited amount of gains on Siege.

Siege was a server built for UO gamers who wanted a more hardcore ruleset. One character, extremely hard skill gain, NPC's which didn't buy much (if at all I Sorta forget), no recall. The limit of one character per account also made it so that if you wanted to PVP (which people on this shard were there to do) you HAD to make a PvP character.

I do understand what you mean when you say that certain rules here reflect Siege, such as alchemy damage (because alchy mages were never a big thing on other shards during this era in my experience) and the no reds in town/stat loss. But do remember that the restriction of 1 character per account and extremely hard skill gain made comparing that server to Hybrid a completely different ball game.

 

[GluttSDS]

Re: RFC: Reds and Towns

Why.... this only problem that reds in towns could cause are killing AFKers and macroers. What other harm do they/can they cause?

Mark,

You're willing to change an important facet of this server to further protect AFKers/macroers?

 

[Phooey]

Re: RFC: Reds and Towns

I think its kind of a good idea. It would certainly weed out some of the "lesser" reds.

 

[Lintaglen]

Re: RFC: Reds and Towns

My suggestions:

[1]

Eliminate guards completely. People will be forced to bond together and fight against reds.

[2]

Then make NPC town vendors or healers hard for reds to kill so that basic town infrastructure wont be killed off. Do this by increasing all stats and skills to some insanely high amount like 300 dex/str/int with 200 7x skills in a defense worthy template. Whole point here being we don't wan't people to be unable to use basic town functions like getting a rez because reds have killed the healer.

[3]

Create something along the lines of a factions system where in place of guards you can declare yourself loyal to a town stone in that town. These town stones would soley be a guild to defend the town. You would not be seen as green to other people who clicked the stone. Nor would you be seen as orange to other towns. This would soley be for people who want to defend a specific town against reds. Only requirement being you cannot be red or be in the theifs guild. Maybe something with that justice system on the paperdoll could be incorporated.

[4]

People who joined the town stones would earn special gold from the reds who they killed inside of town. The gold would soley be for buying guards or other things from a specific vendor.

[5]

"Guards"

Guards would not be invincible and would not do instant kills, but would be permanately visable untill killed and would atack reds on sight. Nothing of value would be on guards corpses. Guards would be mounted and would be able to survive huge synchronised mage dumps, bladespirits and common luring tricks. Subsequently the stats would need to be insanely high 1500 str/ 500 int/ 150 dex. They would need to be 125 skill in a 7x or more defensable template. And they would need to be good enough AI to dispell easy kill tricks like casting 20 bladespirits on a guard.

[6]

"Hard Doors"

Other things you can buy would be "Hard Doors". Hard doors could be bought and placed wherever current opening entrances or normal doors to buildings inside towns are. Only blues would be able to open hard doors from the outside, however if the door was left open reds could enter the building and open the doors from the inside but would still never be able to open the doors from outside. The whole point here being, people could bunker inside buildings if needed and traveling from one part of a town to another would be would as dangerous as leaving it. Who knows maybe gangs would emerge over certain sections of the city.

[7]

"Traps"

Borrow some traps from factions or create entirely new ones to be bought by people who joined the town stone and used against reds within the boundries of town.

[8]

Create a prison. The prison would need to be possible to escape but not easy. Murdurers and theifs would go here under certain conditions. Maybe those conditions would be, being killed by a guard or being beheaded and having your head turned in.

[9]

Theifs would be a menace. To counteract the menace theifs would automatically be flagged gray after stealing items. Whether the items were successfully stolen or not, they would allways be flagged gray to everyone for attempting stealing. Guards would atack theifs on sight.

Note:

I would like to say I don't expect any of these ideas to be implemented, not even partially. These are just far fetched ideas, I merely them because to explore some possibilities that triggered my thinking while reading all of the back and fourth arguments. Most likely I'll be flamed from one end of the spectrum or the other, so be it.

this would be better suited for an entirely new server, if not an entirely new game completely. I can't see any of these things happening here.

 

[Ajax]

Re: RFC: Reds and Towns

I think its kind of a good idea. It would certainly weed out some of the "lesser" reds.

still, what about the blues who are looking for reds to kill? It's not always easy finding a red to pvp with as it is. You really want to reduce the red v blue action?