Area Effect Spells

[cr0chet]

I think it will ruin alchemist because that would be really gay if purple pots would hurt blues in town that means you cant throw exp pots in town.

 

[Obe[IC]]

I think it'd have a major negative impact on factions. As is, EQ is a major portion of dealing real damage to major groups of defenders. If you had this happen, you would also have instances of blues griefing as well. Not only in town following PvP groups to guardwhack whoever, but also group/field combat as well. Fields and Mass area spells are the only real thing right now to disable a group of turrets. If you get rid of that ability. That's all you'll ever see.

 

[ihatemessageboards]

I can understand why some enjoy having these things in their arsenal, but think about it, can you honestly control these spells/items to not touch others? I'm all for realism.

 

[TeeTee]

This will kill group-PVP.

 

[An Old Lady]

well now everyone will pull a god and just stack with blues on top.

 

[Mark]

This will kill group-PVP.

Only if you consider group pvp pre-casting meteor swarm with 3 friends and running in and out. Or everyone throwing explosion potions at the same time with bows... etc etc..

 

[DamnSkippy]

I am for...

I am for the changes.
Though someone mentioned not getting counts from NPC's.... Which I am totally against. But since that's not the topic....

Yay player input!

 

[Mark]

I think it'd have a major negative impact on factions. As is, EQ is a major portion of dealing real damage to major groups of defenders. If you had this happen, you would also have instances of blues griefing as well. Not only in town following PvP groups to guardwhack whoever, but also group/field combat as well. Fields and Mass area spells are the only real thing right now to disable a group of turrets. If you get rid of that ability. That's all you'll ever see.

I see it from a different angle. EQ should be used sparingly in group fights, especially faction raids (and the dexxer is much more powerful now for faction raiding). Same can be said for explosion potions in town. i.e. Both of these could be seen as overpowered the way they are being used right now.

As for turrets, MS really isn't effective (nor EQ) because of their damage spreading properties. Poison fields really don't do that much good either, because most turrets just cure and shift. I've found the best way to fight turrets is with another large group of people, with these aforementioned spells playing little part on both sides. There really is no great way to fight a turret though, just stop fighting them and maybe they will get the point and stop doing it.

 

[Inferno Blaze]

You can't: Field, EV, Blade Spirit, MS, Chain Lightening, or EQ in town. Aside from the affect on explosion potions, how will this make town pvp 'boring as crap'. Does town pvp revolve around explosion potions. I asked for intelligent feedback.

well thankyou for calling me unintelligent just for expressing my opinion like you asked for us to do.... field, ev, blade spirit, ms, eq will all just get you guardwhacked in town so what is the point of using those exactly?? i don't mind this patch at all except for the fact that you can't throw exp pots cus that was always fun...

 

[Mark]

well thankyou for calling me unintelligent just for expressing my opinion like you asked for us to do.... field, ev, blade spirit, ms, eq will all just get you guardwhacked in town so what is the point of using those exactly?? i don't mind this patch at all except for the fact that you can't throw exp pots cus that was always fun...

I indirectly alluded to you being intelligent because you did not back up your generic statement of 'This will ruin town pvp' with factual argumentative evidence. Furthermore, the spells you mention won't get you guardwhacked in town, they are impossible to cast in town, period.

 

[Cmack]

...

i thought on OSI you could always choose whether to use the "field" part of the spell or not.

IE. i cast MS and target a ground tile ... it casts towards all targets in the area.
*or* I use MS in my combo ... Exp, cast MS, hit last target ... it would never spread out and hit everyone, only the target you chose, being one person.

is this the way you are intending to put it to?

if so, exp pots would only do damage to others when you threw it to some random spot on the ground .... not when you use it to Last Target someone (which is what pot chuckers use). just makes you accountable for the times you throw an exp pot somewhere on the ground.

or did i not understand the proposed changes right?? (sorry mark ! )

 

[Some Dude]

Yes, I agree with the changes, it will stop a good deal of the senseless pot throwing, which i see happen far too often.

Now for those who are inclined to argue against such changes, for whatever reason, perhaps you should take a closer look at the situation.

First off, if I'm not mistaken, somone mentioned earlier that you cannot cast area of affect spells in town to begin with, so there really is no issue there. Second, BS/EV not being caused to backfire was not a bug, it was OSI listening to people bitch about "oh no my 5 EVs turned around and killed me after owning the shit outta that guy", the creatures are CHAOTIC, or in layman's terms, they see no one as ally or as enemy but as a possible target. Third, explosion potions are not magical. Unless you want to code in a spicific, algoritmically complex addition that allows you to create magical potions at an additional mana and reagent cost with minimum magery reuirement behind it, explosion potions will continue to be non-magical. When you throw the potion, and it lands on the ground, it dosent know where to go, it has no "l33t tracking explosion" ability, it just goes off and hits whoever is within the blast range, including innocent players.

Now for anyone using these area of affect spells outside town, there is still an explanation to the situation.

With fields, dont cast them if you know there can be a problem, simple as that. If your near guards, you need to be aware of that fact and act accordingly, and dont cast a field you arent prepared to face the consequences of the assault. Taking on a house of reds isnt supposed to be find and dandy easy work, especailly when they are entreanched in a house. Oh, and dont walk into your own fields, or the fields of your party members if you choose to use them, thats just plain incompitence on your part if you blindly walk in to the field. Now for spells such as EQ/MS/CL, the problem which is being fixed is the balance issue of risk vs. reward. Think about this, as a mage you have the distinct advantage of being able to strike from a long range, while all fighters, archers excepted, need to be next to you to actually do damage. The drawback? You need mana to actually cast your spell while, albeit i do need stamina to swing mine, I do not need to actually use up my supply of stamina to continue to swing. Risk vs reward. For spells such as EV's and BS, you are able to literally summon a creature from nothingness to partake in melee combat, while still retaining the ability to stand back and cast. However, once the EV has either lost or killed its target, this powerful melee monster (that essentially gives the mage melee damage where he would have had none in the first place), has the chance of turning around and attacking its caster because of its chaotic nature. Risk vs. reward. Lastly, for spells like EQ/MS/CL this fix will rebalance the spells into proper use. If you use a spell like MS for example, like any other spell, it has the same risk vs. reward of range vs. mana cost. But the important part that is missing from the spell is area of affect damage vs consequences to those around you who are not an enemy. MS dosent require a direct target. All you need to do is strike in the general area of where you want to attack. For that ability to give an indirect target and STILL maintain the ability to hit a good deal more than one person, you have to deal with the risk of possibly striking somone who is not an enemy with your indirect attack. The same can be said about EQ and CL, if you dont have to directly target to get the damage done, then you have to risk the fact that because of the ability to indirectly target, you might in fact hit an unintended target with that attack. Risk vs. reward.

Pvp, particularly group pvp, is a complicated matter, you cannot just decide that since there are 20 mages and that you can all cast EQ, to go walk in and do 20 EQ's to kill an enemy, where is the risk involved? This kind of change will force intelligent thought into pvp, making it much more fun, and difficult.

 

[AnBuSasuke]

Yes, I agree with the changes, it will stop a good deal of the senseless pot throwing, which i see happen far too often.

Now for those who are inclined to argue against such changes, for whatever reason, perhaps you should take a closer look at the situation.

First off, if I'm not mistaken, somone mentioned earlier that you cannot cast area of affect spells in town to begin with, so there really is no issue there. Second, BS/EV not being caused to backfire was not a bug, it was OSI listening to people bitch about "oh no my 5 EVs turned around and killed me after owning the shit outta that guy", the creatures are CHAOTIC, or in layman's terms, they see no one as ally or as enemy but as a possible target. Third, explosion potions are not magical. Unless you want to code in a spicific, algoritmically complex addition that allows you to create magical potions at an additional mana and reagent cost with minimum magery reuirement behind it, explosion potions will continue to be non-magical. When you throw the potion, and it lands on the ground, it dosent know where to go, it has no "l33t tracking explosion" ability, it just goes off and hits whoever is within the blast range, including innocent players.

Now for anyone using these area of affect spells outside town, there is still an explanation to the situation.

With fields, dont cast them if you know there can be a problem, simple as that. If your near guards, you need to be aware of that fact and act accordingly, and dont cast a field you arent prepared to face the consequences of the assault. Taking on a house of reds isnt supposed to be find and dandy easy work, especailly when they are entreanched in a house. Oh, and dont walk into your own fields, or the fields of your party members if you choose to use them, thats just plain incompitence on your part if you blindly walk in to the field. Now for spells such as EQ/MS/CL, the problem which is being fixed is the balance issue of risk vs. reward. Think about this, as a mage you have the distinct advantage of being able to strike from a long range, while all fighters, archers excepted, need to be next to you to actually do damage. The drawback? You need mana to actually cast your spell while, albeit i do need stamina to swing mine, I do not need to actually use up my supply of stamina to continue to swing. Risk vs reward. For spells such as EV's and BS, you are able to literally summon a creature from nothingness to partake in melee combat, while still retaining the ability to stand back and cast. However, once the EV has either lost or killed its target, this powerful melee monster (that essentially gives the mage melee damage where he would have had none in the first place), has the chance of turning around and attacking its caster because of its chaotic nature. Risk vs. reward. Lastly, for spells like EQ/MS/CL this fix will rebalance the spells into proper use. If you use a spell like MS for example, like any other spell, it has the same risk vs. reward of range vs. mana cost. But the important part that is missing from the spell is area of affect damage vs consequences to those around you who are not an enemy. MS dosent require a direct target. All you need to do is strike in the general area of where you want to attack. For that ability to give an indirect target and STILL maintain the ability to hit a good deal more than one person, you have to deal with the risk of possibly striking somone who is not an enemy with your indirect attack. The same can be said about EQ and CL, if you dont have to directly target to get the damage done, then you have to risk the fact that because of the ability to indirectly target, you might in fact hit an unintended target with that attack. Risk vs. reward.

Pvp, particularly group pvp, is a complicated matter, you cannot just decide that since there are 20 mages and that you can all cast EQ, to go walk in and do 20 EQ's to kill an enemy, where is the risk involved? This kind of change will force intelligent thought into pvp, making it much more fun, and difficult.

i read half of this post....way too long for me right now im way to tired to continue reading it...but it the second half is as good as the first half...damn good job sums it up good on most of the things...if the bottem half sucks...good job on the top...bottem...you suck

 

[Mark]

I read the entire thing... very well thought out. It made me want to put in the patch right away. ;p

 

[ke6960]

i dont have an opinion on the subject but i do have a question/comment earthquake will hurt innocent players now (before the change) i know cause it can be used to kill people macroing inside a house with the door locked

OMG! No. Ok, first off, missle, stop talking. Why would a BS/EV backfire on the caster... That was an error fixed... You don't cast Summon Daemon and it turns around and slaps you. And next, I usually can be found outside of Moonglow on my Pker ' A Duck'. If I have a few people with me (rare thing for me to gank, but for the example), I wouldn't want a Meteor Storm to hit my friends. I think that if I have enough magery to cast MS, I should be (in a real sence) able to control who it hits. And farther back, I just saw someone say "Serouisly, they are AREA OF EFFECT spells, they should hurt EVERYONE in the area.... DUH?! And yes, if someone runs thru a field and counts you. guess what? dont use fucking fields then. Bye now" Alright Anon, obviously your a trammelite. If you are blue, and partied with a bunch of people, attacking a house of reds, and you cast a poison field at the door, ANY old blue could come up, get hit, walk into guards and say "omg GUARDS". This would make fields useless anyway, because since they are used against groups, you would also have a group with you, and they would get hit just as much, making them a deterent to both sides. An experienced mages' most important stat is Intelligence. Obviously, yours is Dex.

first of all ev/bs and summon deamon are different u can control the deamon/elemental but ev and bs arent controlable and in fel they should attack everything they can including there summoner....

secondly if u attack someone and both of you are outside of town guards they cannon i repeat cannot run back inside town and call guards well they can but u wont be killed by the guards nothing will happen

thirdly what do u mean "if i have enough magery to cast ms" if ur a mage u have enough magery unless ur not finished building the char and if ur casting ms ur friends should be smart enough to see the spell and stand back for a second if they are retarded then maybe they deserve to die






yea what i said or basiclly what some dude said.... guess i shoulda read it first cause he said the same things as me....

 

[Juvenile]

I dont think some of you people are reading the change right. He said to vote YES if you want mages to get gwhacked from throwing pots in town, and they hit an innocent. Proposed: To remove safety restrictions on these spells and require mages to be accountable for all spells they cast. Ya want to get gwhacked when pvping in town and some newbie is following you, waiting for you to throw a pot and get you gwhacked?

 

[Pajama]

Anyone who agrees to this is a trammie. End of discussion.

 

[Lorthic]

I am heavily for these changes. If staff isn't willing to remove area effect spells from damaging those who are in their houses, then this would by far be just as fair.

To those opposed due to accidental problems, don't use these spells/items at all then. It's like playing with matches in a TNT factory... either you got the balls to play with the fire and reap the consequences, or you play trammy and don't get burned.

Worst analogy ever. Die.

 

[Lorthic]

I agree to the changes concerning all of the other spells except actual field spells (fire field, poison field, paralyze field, etc.). There are enough griefers running around trying to give people counts as it is (myself included, because even though I play a red 75% of the time I thoroughly enjoy people getting angry and upset, and the fact that if they go gray I can kill them ^_^), and with the changes to actual field spells it would make it ever moreso, and that's not fair to people who are just trying to play the game. Yes, it will add realism, but you don't see people casting spells in the mall, do you? Yeah, there is no "realism" in this game, and to use that term is absolutely ridiculous. Oh, and as far as explosion potions go, that shouldn't flag people as gray--yes, it did pre-t2a, and maybe pre-uor, but it shouldn't anyway. I mean, come on, be a little lenient as far as these changes go, because every few patches that you do changes pvp a little bit more, sometimes enhancing it yet at other times it dumbs it down. I realize you're attempting to create the perfect balance in peeveepee, but again you must realize that there will always be those that complain. The next complaint will probably be remove magical weapons from the game, because 'mages have no true protection against it'. Well, cry me a river, everyone. Stop being such little patsies, please. I could add more, but I'm in school and I turn off my brain when I come here.

So, yes to all of the 'area-effect' spells, but no to the field spells.

Just my two cents.

-Lorthic/Fabian

 

[Ryan]

Anyone who agrees to this is a trammie. End of discussion.

These changes were my idea, and the last thing I am, is a Trammie.

GSODNMF

good day.