How many of you are religious!

[Cebrious Arcane]

Re: How many of you are religious!

religion. the last refuge of a scoundrel(s).

A true scoundrel is one who makes blanket hypocritical statements with no support. It's a cute quote, but why don't you back it up?

Evidence and proof, as far as science is concerned, is required to be impersonal. If you state something scientifically, you allow it to be vulnerable to repeated testing by anyone wishing to determine its viability. If it was simply a belief, it would be personal. Since you are making your beliefs to be judged by anyone around you, the evidence and proof, by definition, are impersonal, otherwise they are not evidence or proofs.

But that system is only applicable if you believe there are people around you, believe you can trust your perceptions, believe you can trust their opinions and their perceptions, as well as trust that what you both perceive is, in fact, the same. That's an awful lot of belief, wouldn't you say?

 

[zlatan fulgere]

Re: How many of you are religious!

But that system is only applicable if you believe there are people around you, believe you can trust your perceptions, believe you can trust their opinions and their perceptions, as well as trust that what you both perceive is, in fact, the same. That's an awful lot of belief, wouldn't you say?

You used the word "believe" quite a few times, sure. (= If science is a collection of what we know about the appearance of reality, the only belief required is that the appearance will remain as consistent as it has previously. There appears to be others around me. Perceptions create the appearance. If what others perceive share the same properties, the appearance is consistent to that point.

 

[Cebrious Arcane]

Re: How many of you are religious!

You used the word "believe" quite a few times, sure. (= If science is a collection of what we know about the appearance of reality, the only belief required is that the appearance will remain as consistent as it has previously. There appears to be others around me. Perceptions create the appearance. If what others perceive share the same properties, the appearance is consistent to that point.

Hehe, but as you and I have discussed, are perceptions not fallible? I'll get back to you in the Newsweek thread tomorrow. Just wanted to pop on real quick and see where this thread went.

 

[a noob]

Re: How many of you are religious!

Science is only as good as our observations, which we use with our senses. But how much can we trust our senses to be correct, or true? I guess thats an obvious statement, but I just felt like saying it.

 

[zlatan fulgere]

Re: How many of you are religious!

Hehe, but as you and I have discussed, are perceptions not fallible? I'll get back to you in the Newsweek thread tomorrow. Just wanted to pop on real quick and see where this thread went.

Sure, but- well, I don't want to take over this one too. I'll come back if no one else gets to it for awhile.

 

[Siccx]

Re: How many of you are religious!

Catholic.. and yes I go to church, occasionally/.

 

[Underwater Ape]

Re: How many of you are religious!

Evidence and proof, as far as science is concerned, is required to be impersonal. If you state something scientifically, you allow it to be vulnerable to repeated testing by anyone wishing to determine its viability. If it was simply a belief, it would be personal. Since you are making your beliefs to be judged by anyone around you, the evidence and proof, by definition, are impersonal, otherwise they are not evidence or proofs.

how can it ever be impersonal? information comes to you through your 5 senses. hence it ALWAYS being personal. you assume perceptions are the same as others. you assume there is even an external world. and you assume your intreptations of the external world based soley on your 5 senses are correct. not to mention the fact that even if everything you're assuming is correct, your own interpretation of the information is just that, your own interpretation. it'll all come down to language. there is meaning behind language. but the meanings themselves were learned through your own experiences and environement. and absolutely no one experiences life the same way. so where exactly does your static absolute facts come in? everything is personal. you choose to make assumptions.

the dots were never there to begin with. we made them and connected them ourselves.

 

[fonis]

Re: How many of you are religious!

Of course I have assumptions. Primarily, I have 2: that nature/life/existence is consistent and that there are people outside of myself. I can believe the latter because I believe in this physically monist existence. I believe the former because I consider it to be the only rational possibility, and if it's not true, then fuck it all I'm fucked anyway.

And by that token, science requires the okay of everyone signing off on a law/theory/hypothesis for it to be accepted, therefore it is personal to each individual and impersonal on a whole as it encompasses everyones' perceptions.

 

[GradGT]

Re: How many of you are religious!

why are atheists always crying for attention :/

i think its because by not believing in God they don't have the feeling that anyone's watching them and experiments in quantum theory have shown that on a quantum level, existance depends on whether or not an object is being observed.

i myself struggle constantly with the idea of "reality", especially since everything I have ever percieved is contained within a few inches of organic matter in the top of my skull.

 

[top notch]

Re: How many of you are religious!

i dont follow any religion, but im not athiest

 

[top notch]

Re: How many of you are religious!

u ever notice u can always find "non believers" praying or getting saved while on their death beds? or when in near death experiences?

i do it myself lol

 

[Cebrious Arcane]

Re: How many of you are religious!

Of course I have assumptions. Primarily, I have 2: that nature/life/existence is consistent and that there are people outside of myself. I can believe the latter because I believe in this physically monist existence. I believe the former because I consider it to be the only rational possibility, and if it's not true, then fuck it all I'm fucked anyway.

Fair enough, but as the saying goes, "When you assume, you make an "ass" out of "u" and "me." How do assumptions play into verifiable consistent reality?

And by that token, science requires the okay of everyone signing off on a law/theory/hypothesis for it to be accepted, therefore it is personal to each individual and impersonal on a whole as it encompasses everyones' perceptions.

Agreed, but it does not require everyone in the scientific community to agree. Theories become truths. The theory of gravity, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, has many holes, but that is believed by nearly everyone on the planet as true. The theory of gravity is now a truth. It's easy to say that science will incorporate new information when that information becomes available, but that is the faith of in science. The world used to be flat.

 

[cloroxman]

Re: How many of you are religious!

I believe

Key word right there.

 

[cloroxman]

Re: How many of you are religious!

why are atheists always crying for attention :/

i think its because by not believing in God they don't have the feeling that anyone's watching them and experiments in quantum theory have shown that on a quantum level, existance depends on whether or not an object is being observed.

i myself struggle constantly with the idea of "reality", especially since everything I have ever percieved is contained within a few inches of organic matter in the top of my skull.

I think that top statement can be applied to both ends of the spectrum...honestly. But anyway, I never struggle with the idea of reality (except the times I played with heavy hallucinogenics when I was in college) because I figure "what I see is what I get at the moment". My scope is within the bounds of what we as humans have defined as reality and I will live in it and make the best of it. I find peeling back these layers of abstraction causes some forms of nihilism in myself.

The urges to procreate, to love my family and to live comfortable within the constraints of our so called reality is more productive to me.

I think if I really want to sit back and peel one layer back, I would probably be right there with Ape. But the fact is, no matter how hard I will it to be, my mind is trapped within the scope of what we perceive is reality. I feel pleasure and pain caused by what I perceive as objects in our reality and nothing I do can change that so far. So I'll roll with it.

A lot of people in the religious state question our reason for existing since we do not have any direct belief or rather, a defined purpose in life. I just answer, because I'm alive. Isn't that a good enough answer? Really, my question to them is why do we need a purpose to exist?

(again, I'm not an atheist)
hehe Keep it going Ceb and Ape. I like giving my brain the ol' massage.
/leaves to get more coffee

 

[Underwater Ape]

Re: How many of you are religious!

you're just an ego.

 

[Perkis]

Re: How many of you are religious!

Im not athiest... but agnostic. I was raised a roman catholic, but I dont rly let religion run my life. I gotta worry about more important things... like how to get 2 mil in 2 days, or pay off my credit card bills.

Im not denouncing the existence of a god, I just simply dont know for sure (given there are no REAL facts), and Im not rly concerned with it either. Im sure theres big guns upstairs tho...

 

[OffMyJohnson]

Re: How many of you are religious!

I think that religion is bad. but belief in something, be it god, karma, yourself... ect. as long as whatever you believe in makes you happy, not your friends, family buy you. thats all that matters.

you can't change people. there are who they are and all we can do is accept that.

 

[Cebrious Arcane]

Re: How many of you are religious!

you're just an ego.

Can consciousness exist without ego? Great pic, by the way.

I think that religion is bad. but belief in something, be it god, karma, yourself... ect. as long as whatever you believe in makes you happy, not your friends, family buy you. thats all that matters.

You contradicted yourself. Explain why religion is bad.

 

[cloroxman]

Re: How many of you are religious!

Can consciousness exist without ego? Great pic, by the way.

Agreed.

 

[aeSentinel]

Re: How many of you are religious!

i'm christian to the point where i believe in god and christ

Include the Bible and that's me too. I hate the Church and the rest of Christianity in general.