A Change in the rules. (unattended scroll crafting)

[silvertiger]

Re: A Change in the rules.

afk anything should be banned, except skill/stat macroing.

I agree partially, become more like OSI. On OSI if you sit somewhere idle you get kicked. I think the skill and stat macroing should be illegal too. It's illegal on OSI so it should be illegal here. That is just a personal opinion. Since I don't have the backing of some staff and a bunch of players I guess it doesn't matter what I say and it's not a broken system either, which I still say the actual making of scrolls isn't broken so the tax should be placed on the vendors(just set them at 1 gp give people a date and when the script comes out set them at normal price and let the system work.)

 

[Gisela]

Re: A Change in the rules.

Well that might increase donation store profits (skill and stat balls )

 

[silvertiger]

Re: A Change in the rules.

Well that might increase donation store profits (skill and stat balls )

See I do have good ideas every now and then.just takes a lot of mumbo jumbo to get something solid, so if you are having problems with ideas start with bad ideas and keep going. You will eventually come upon a good one.

 

[dsavant]

Re: A Change in the rules.

This is such crap. Show me how this has ruined the economy?
How does that ruin the economy?
I fully hope that you make all other AFK crafting illegal too, Its only fair. Filling bods & filling Alchy kegs,certainly should not be allowed to be done AFK.
The reason for this change is not to prevent a bug, it's because to many of the old players cried. PSZ didn't have a problem with it until all the old vets

Sounds like the hard way to appease the old players.

yea because you could TOTALLY make over 5 mill a night COMPLETELY AFK off of just running to get regs for an hour....
you're right, all us old players are all waa waa waa, because we don't want to see the server we've spent on go to complete and utter shit and FYI it was us vets using the exploit the most, so if anything we should be QQing that it's getting banned... making other crafting illegal is just completely retarded, show me another craft skill that i can macro afk for 6 hours and make 5 mill, with putting less then 1 mill into it.

afk anything should be banned, except skill/stat macroing.

osi clone

 

[joshfowler]

Re: A Change in the rules.

Wow thats just no good i will have to say. There is no way in hell im sitting around making 500k scrolls attended. Sheesh i only got a chance to make about 2mil on this. i just finished my fourth scribe and have been doing nothing but running two to make the money to gather massive amounts of scrolls and regs. So just saying i have 500k scrolls and vamp regs for sale if anyone else wants to buy them and make them attended there is no way im going that route.

I agree totally with the new rule and whatnot. but am sadly disappointed that i was only a day or so away from kabillions of gold and yet again it has slipped away .

 

[Athena]

Re: A Change in the rules.

I don't see you punishing gz exploiters. All the bs about you having to see them do it is bs. If someone takes a screeny or rpv of it where you can clearly see they are exploiting it should be punished, but you can't act on screenies or rpv's now can you?

We do and will continue to jail for that if we witness it. I would have thought it would be pretty clear why we don't jail based on screenshots and rpv's, do you know how easy it is to set someone else up and get them jailed that way?

 

[KingJames]

Re: A Change in the rules.

do you know how easy it is to set someone else up and get them jailed that way?

If they still exploit it then they should be jailed.

 

[Athena]

Re: A Change in the rules.

If they still exploit it then they should be jailed.

Obviously ... THAT is why we always go and check out what's happening and cannot jail based on screenshots or rpv's alone.

 

[Feersum Endjinn]

Re: A Change in the rules.

This

Originally Posted by Feersum Endjinn
2 months is long enough pull together all sorts of riches.

I just have a thing for second place. You know - just in case...

110 [mil]


FE

Quoted from an Inquis auction....Economy here is fucked.

...

There are precisely two non unique items in-game which can fetch that kind of gold. One is Inquis, because there are only four on the shard and only 12 will spawn per year; because it is useful and because very few ever come on the market. The other which might reach that kind of number is the Val Hammer - for very similar reasons. Using either of those two exceptional items as a reflection on the economy is ridiculous.


There were four people bidding in that auction: myself, Lord mars (who has been here even longer than me), Esqarrouth and Carnak. Two of us have spent five years amassing a certain amount of wealth (without scribing, in my case at least) while the other two bidders have been here afk scribing for two months. So you tell me - who, if anyone, has upset the economy?

And the first comment of mine you quoted was directed towards guess who?

lol o shit. well we knew this was comin. me n my guildies have been talkin for 2 months about when they are gonna fix this. i always make a crapload of reveals myself and then sell em at a huge profit, i regularly had 7 mil waiting for me when i logged on the next day, iv stopped recently cause getting the resources is annoying, and lately theres been massive competition for blood moss and sulphur ash. i bet osi still allows u to sell scrolls at good profits, but this being an old game n all and everyone knowing the tricks, and with razor helping massively, they were bound to axe the scrollers eventually. o well at least people will be back in the dungeons again. and im sure everyone that has 100 mil plus will have no reason to complain, we are gonna have the run of the markets for like a year lol, now that gold is gonna be hard again. but itll even out in a few weeks or months n prices will be normal again. its almost kind of a relief cause sometimes when i was bidding on an item it was all about who could have the most scribes runnin afk in order to get the item

FE

 

[Ageless Venomous]

Re: A Change in the rules.

Its not illegal to sit there macroing spells. It never will be. They just said that if you're unattended you can get in trouble thats all. And soon, when the patch comes out, it wont be profitable to do it at all.

Thats all. Just bust your butt and finish using the resources you've got now. And cash in for one last huge paycheck.

I respect the decisions of staff and the integrity of the UO economy. But I do honestly think this is crap. Not more than 2 or 3 weeks ago I asked a GM for help on something, and he actually gave me advise on how to improve my macro on making more profitable amounts of scrolls. lol. Now they're yankin' my favorite way to passively make money. ^_^

Well the staff members arent robots programmed to think alike. Some may disagree, but in the end there is hierarchy, majority votes, and wichever other political system you might think of to be respected.

 

[burning soul]

Re: A Change in the rules.

...

There are precisely two non unique items in-game which can fetch that kind of gold. One is Inquis, because there are only four on the shard and only 12 will spawn per year; because it is useful and because very few ever come on the market. The other which might reach that kind of number is the Val Hammer - for very similar reasons. Using either of those two exceptional items as a reflection on the economy is ridiculous.


There were four people bidding in that auction: myself, Lord mars (who has been here even longer than me), Esqarrouth and Carnak. Two of us have spent five years amassing a certain amount of wealth (without scribing, in my case at least) while the other two bidders have been here afk scribing for two months. So you tell me - who, if anyone, has upset the economy?

And the first comment of mine you quoted was directed towards guess who?




FE

Should fix it quickly.

 

[cityhead]

Re: A Change in the rules.

'Tragedy of the commons', anyone?
Has anyone read that article about how the ingame economics of UO has evolved?
When UO first launched, it had a more complex economic system where vendors would not buy any item they had in abundance, as well as there being floating prices on commodities.
For example, if they had 1000 blood moss, why would they bother buying any off players? and even if they did. It would only be for 1gp each... Just like real life, it would be essentially valueless to them.
A system like this is so sensible since it regulates commodity price based upon two variables: supply and demand. Supply goes up, prices go down. Demand goes up, prices go up. An item readily available to players would probably not be in high demand, so the entire system balances out. It's pretty simple stuff, and entirely reasonable.
Many real world economic principles were put into UO in the beginning, along with several complex economic systems having been implemented over the years to deal with the problem of a closed economy with a 200,000% inflation rate. ( Since you could pull gold out of thin air by hunting. )
But people complained about it, since this system made farming commodities pretty unappealing. Eventually OSI gave in and made a fixed commodity price system. Big mistake... it just confounded their original problem... that being developing appropriate gold sinks and mechanisms for dealing with excess gold.
Now we're seeing the harvest of these problems on demise. Just like OSI's duping bug problems...
Within the UO economy, when you can pull commodities and straight gold out of thin air, and then sell it for a fixed price.... any idiot can see that's not sustainable.
Which is why I've been here playing honestly for months, and accumulated probably about 1.5kk from hunting alone... and in the same time some people earn about 200kk+
I was thinking about this a little while back when I camped out at the Zento craft warehouse and sold all my weapons I made while training carpentry ( attended macroing mind you. )... "What kind of unrealistic system is this, why would the carpenter want 2500 useless wooden swords?"
To anyone complaining: You're lucky that OSI bitched out and dropped their realistic economy in favour of a friendlier disney candy-coated-economy where everyone can spam their junk at vendors for cash... so you can hardly complain about Demise making a rule against AFK macroing for cash, a system which is so absurdly abused on the shard.
I agree there has to be macroing, who the hell wants to spend 9 months clicking "make last." every 2 seconds..? But there has to be a limit.

 

[Hilde]

Re: A Change in the rules.

Thanks for this change!
I was about to stop playing on Demise for that reason...

 

[Seer]

Re: A Change in the rules.

DO IT! Also as a side note I think you should wipe the whole game. Restart everyone.

This would also fix some hacked items.... sounds interesting

 

[Oaks]

Re: A Change in the rules.

So, how many newbie millionaires have popped up since this scroll method has been made known to the masses? Hehe. (i see some have posted here already!)

Found it quite amusing to come across gold offers of 25-100 mil on the trade forums lately, whereas before all this you would rarely encounter those amounts being offered. Ofcourse, might be due to new items (inquis for example- only that expensive as it is new and has a long respawn timer)) which are in demand but still. I don't think it was too long ago that some were saying that there was a shortage of gold on Demise and that it is being hoarded by a few.

Not that I have a problem with people using this method anyway. There's more to UO then just cranking out as much gold as possible 24/7. Looks too much like a full time job to me instead of a game you play to just chill and relax after a busy day.

(by the way, before I'm accused of anything - all my gold is from gaunt, idocs and trades. I have one scribe, who is actually a fisher, and hasn't even scribed a single scroll or book in its life hehe)

edit: crap, just read third's post. I'm a beggar compared to him.

 

[Oaks]

Re: A Change in the rules.

And the whole argument about vets versus newbiew does not make sense. Not all old players are wealthy. Not all old players have been abusing systems to make some decent money. It is just inevitable that the longer you spend here you tend to accumulate more and better stuff. It is not a competition that if you start playing here that you have to "beat" the old guys. That is some strange goal you are setting for yourself. Yes you might and will get outbid on items you want if you are new but old players were in the same position when they started out. Some extremely flawed argumentation being brought forward here.

By doing the whole scrolling afk method you would actually significantly contribute to any assumed problem of a supposed gap between old and new players for any new players joining demise after this fix.

 

[cityhead]

Re: A Change in the rules.

Not that I have a problem with people using this method anyway. There's more to UO then just cranking out as much gold as possible 24/7. Looks too much like a full time job to me instead of a game you play to just chill and relax after a busy day.

Yeah, there definitely is more to it than that. Though the way some people go about it, it'd make you wonder. I'm a bit annoyed now I've realized what people were doing... fair enough, life is a winner's game, and the rewards go to the most cunning... but I assumed people were earning all this money fairly. ( somehow.... I assumed there were legit ways to earn it. )...
The problem where it impacts everyone else is that people can gain an unfair advantage on the game being filthy rich. Despite the intense inflation, things like powerscrolls and high end runics stay at a reasonably fixed price. ( They do inflate, but not proportionate to the new amount of gold in the economy. ), and things like custom houses and resources don't inflate at all... if you have 5kk per night... decking a new character out with 5 120PS scrolls ain't no thing really, and buying that character a ridiculously good suit, probably from players who earned it legit... aint much either.
Really unbalances the game...
Sounds alot like real life huh?
Read about Goldman Sachs and other conglomerate thug corporations, and how these companies create money out of thin air.... Then read about the tragedy of the commons...
( Goldman sachs have a system where they buy stocks instantaneously on Wall St, inflating the value due to demand, then sell them instantaneously at a slightly inflated price... profits might be tiny compared to the amount of stocks bought and sold... but repeated constantly... creates significant profits.... does this sound a little like what's going on here? )
Fucks things up for everyone when people start doing things like this.

 

[Oaks]

Re: A Change in the rules.

I really refuse to compare a supposed economy of a simple online game with the real world. It is the arguments brought forward by people using this method which make no sense.

 

[weinster666]

Re: A Change in the rules.

Perhaps, to make things more realistic, staff should take a snapshot of every players current wealth (amount of gold + est. value of items owned), and implement a tax. And then, once that is done, perhaps redistribute cash to the lower income families as a one time welfare program.

 

[Hilde]

Re: A Change in the rules.

IMHO NPCs should have a limited amount of gold. If a mage (NPC) can give you 100 mils for scrolls, why doesn't he look for a better job? Why does he work at all? Why doesn't he own the biggest house on the shard? If I have a limited amount of gold, why not the NPC vendors?