Champ Spawn might be inaccurate

[Necrodog]

LOL YES! It is possible to do it on other toon, but it takes hours we're talking 2 to 3 hour with 5 players. Like I posted above we started out with a fencers using task master with 100% area of effect weapon, and slayers for the last level it was really mind numbing painful to have to keep killing over, and over, and it even reset on us a bunch of times, and lots of time we've abandon the spawn at last level giving up just to come back, and try again with a different tactics.

I don't even understand the second part of this post... It is totally pointless to mention Dexxer templates vs. playing a necromageweaver.

You are doubtlessly doing something wrong if you can't do a spawn in like 15-20 minutes with FIVE 4/6 necromageweavers.

I will continue by saying that I know people who can solo rikktor on a necromageweaver.

 

[Loler]

I checked all of the publishes and patches from SA release till start of 2008 there were no valor changes. Feel free to check again if you want. I dont care to check passed SA release as we aren't based off that era.

 

[Bama]

I

The truth is champ spawns on Demise have never been easier
I understand what you are saying about the difficulty when there are 10 people doing a champ and 9 of them have been on the shard 2 days

I also understand that you don't like having to use a template everyone else is using but handicapping yourself is not a reason to want things changed

There are a few (really a ton) things wrong between Demise and OSI but sadly back in 2010 there was a lot of data collected on champ spawns and it was never used.It got left and forgotten in the Coder Needed sub form
FE took all the reports dealing with champ spawns and put it in one report IPK and many others did a lot of data collection and someif not a lot was never used

Not everyone has access to the sub form but here is a copy and paste from it

1. [CODER NEEDED] Champion Spawn Issues
   
   *EDIT* All the code/patches done so far for these issues are HERE
   
   Ok. 5 hours later...
   
   I have tried to organize the Champ Spawn Issues thread so it makes some sense, and info is easier to find. I will update as more info is provided.
   
   psz/Athena - could you please add the old merged thread under this new post, so that this one is at the top of the thread and not on page six?
   
   Thanks.
   
   
   
   
   Champion Spawn Bugs (Details):
   
   
   • Behaviour on OSI: Altar Hues are not the same as on Demise
   Behaviour on Demise: Altar hues are wrong.
   
   Detailed Description: See above.
   
   Questions/Verification Needed: None.
   
   Links:
   
   Code: Fixed by Erica and Copern. This fix needs to be separated from the "champs resetting to 4 red" fix which is inaccurate.
   
   • Behaviour on OSI: On OSI only one random spawn in T2A and one spawn (Despise) in Fel Dungeons are active at any given moment.
   Behaviour on Demise: All spawns are always active.
   
   Detailed Description: On OSI, the Illish and Tramel spawns are always active, but only one random spawn is active at any one time in T2A (unless another one is activated using Valor) and only Despise is active in Fel (unless another one is activated using Valor).
   
   Questions/Verification Needed: None.
   
   Links:
   
   Code:
   
   • Behaviour on OSI: Fewer kills are needed to advance candles.
   Behaviour on Demise: Too many kills are needed to advance the spawn.
   
   Detailed Description: IP's research at OSI Illish, Trammel and Tokuno spawns has given us a good starting point with which to determine exactly how many kills are needed to advance each red candle at each different Spawn site. He has shown that the number of kills needed at each red is not the same at each site or for each Spawn group. The number of kills needed to advance has also been shown to be reduced by five for each red candle.
   
   To avoid repetition - here is a summary of his results:
   
   
   Sleeping Dragon...............: 3-4 (90), 4-5 (85), 5-6 (80).
   Twalo the Glade...............: 3-4 (90).
   Valor (Rikktor)...............................: 4-5 (75)
   Valor (Coon).......: 2-3 (95)
   Spirituality (Oaks)..........................: 4-5 (80)
   
   Questions/Verification Needed: Does the number of kills depend on location or champ group or both? IP's results suggest that it definitely depends on champ group since if we extrapolate his results at Valor - the kills needed to advance are different for Rikktor and for Coon. Another (remote) possibility is that it could also depend on the initial number of candles.
   
   At least a couple of Champs have to be completed from start to finish to verify that the 5 kill reduction per red candle remains stable throughout each tier.
   
   Links:
   Code:
   
   • Behaviour on OSI: The candle reset timer is always 10 minutes on OSI. (Unless someone can demonstrate otherwise)
   Behaviour on Demise: Candle reset timers are wrong at some locations.
   
   Detailed Description: Some locations in T2A and at least one in Fel Dungeons have reset timers of 15 minutes on Demise. And at least one in T2A (CotD) has a 7 Minute timer...
   Questions/Verification Needed: None
   
   Links:
   
   Code: Not needed. This can be fixed ingame by a Staff member.
   
   • Behaviour on OSI: The spawn area becomes smaller and therefore more intensely populated as you advance through the four tiers.
   Behaviour on Demise: The spawn area is constant.
   
   Detailed Description:
   
   Questions/Verification Needed: Is the area reduced at every red candle, or just at each tier change?
   
   By how much is the spawn area reduced at each change. Details from each spawn will be needed.
   
   Links:
   
   Code:
   • Behaviour on OSI: Recall, Sacred Journey, Gate and Mark are disabled in Spawn regions.
   Behaviour on Demise: They are not.
   
   Detailed Description: See above. NB - this area is not affected by the spawn area reduction. These spells are disabled in the largest, initial spawn area.
   
   Questions/Verification Needed:
   
   Links:
   
   Code:
   • Behaviour on OSI: Active spawns always start with between two and four red candles.
   Behaviour on Demise: All Spawns start with zero red candles.
   
   Detailed Description: See above. IP's research suggests that this number is random and can change when a spawn is completed and after server restart.
   
   Questions/Verification Needed: Is it ever possible for a champ to start with less than two red candles?
   
   Links:
   
   Code:
   
   
   • Behaviour on OSI: If the spawn is abandoned, red candles should drop back to however many candles were there at champ start.
   Behaviour on Demise: Red candles always drop back to zero.
   
   Detailed Description: NB: If the champ was activated using Valor, the candles will drop back down to zero and then the champ will become inactive if no spawn is killed before the timer resets.
   
   Questions/Verification Needed: None.
   
   Links:
   
   Code: Erica has submitted a partial fix for this bug, but it needs to be tweaked because her fix assumed that candles always reset to 4 red.
   
   • Behaviour on OSI: Tier changes do not happen at a fixed number of red candles.
   Behaviour on Demise: Tier changes are fixed at 5 9 13 red candles.
   
   Detailed Description: IP's research shows that the first Tier change is determined by adding 3 to the number of red candles the spawn started with. This suggests that it can occur at 5, 6 or 7 Red candles. (If it can be shown that it is possible to start any champ with less than 2 red candles then the change could also take place at 4 red).
   
   Questions/Verification Needed: Some spawns need to be completed from start to finish to verify the changes from tier 2 to tier 3 and tier 3 to tier 4. Is this always 4 candles after the change from tier 1 to tier 2? (Ie, if you start the spawn at 4 red, will you not see 4th tier mobs until you hit 15 candles?)
   
   Links:
   
   Code:
   
   • Behaviour on OSI: The champion can pop at any time after you hit tier 4.
   Behaviour on Demise: He only pops after you have hit 16 red 5 white.
   
   Detailed Description: See above.
   
   Questions/Verification Needed: We need to verify if he can pop at any point, or only after completing the 5th white of each level. We also need to find out what the probability is of him popping early - does this occur very often? how often?
   
   Links:
   
   Code:
   • Behaviour on OSI: Left-over spawn (after completing or abandoning a champ) disappears after a certain period of inactivity.
   Behaviour on Demise: It doesn't.
   
   Detailed Description: IP states that it may or may not decay, but that remaining spawn will *poof* after the timer resets. NB - this does not include only left-over spawn after champ completion, but also includes "inappropriate" spawn left after a champ has been abandoned and candles have dropped back to an earlier tier.
   
   Questions/Verification Needed: None.
   
   Links:
   
   Code:
   
   
   • Behaviour on OSI: Undead Spawn should have Bone Knights at T2 and Mummies at T3.
   Behaviour on Demise: It is the other way round.
   
   Detailed Description: None.
   
   Questions/Verification Needed: This info comes from UOHerald, but someone who has done Undead Spawn on OSI could confirm...
   
   Links:
   
   Code:
   
   
   
   
   That's all for now.
   
   
   
   FE
   
   Feersum Endjinn, Feb 5, 2010Report
   #1Like

 

[Loler]

still havent answered this

"Answer this if you can. How could you Valor the champ to get a red candle since all spawns had to be popped or repopped with valor."

 

[Bama]

Feel free to check

No thank you I'm good

 

[silvertiger]

still havent answered this

"Answer this if you can. How could you Valor the champ to get a red candle since all spawns had to be popped or repopped with valor."

According to this you can't:

http://www.uoguide.com/Valor
Altars can be targeted only once per spawn: to activate it if inactive, or to add more red candles according to the user's amount of Valor.

 

[Loler]

Altar advancing is often used to finish the harder levels more quickly, especially at theLord Oaks, Semidar and Neira spawn.

from the same topic on uoguide.

we have all agreed on OSI only 1 t2a spawn and only despise is auto popped on server up everything else must be valored. How then can you valor a champ to gain a red candle.

 

[Loler]

Code: Not needed. This can be fixed ingame by a Staff member.

• Behaviour on OSI: The spawn area becomes smaller and therefore more intensely populated as you advance through the four tiers.

Behaviour on Demise: The spawn area is constant.

Detailed Description:

Questions/Verification Needed: Is the area reduced at every red candle, or just at each tier change?

By how much is the spawn area reduced at each change. Details from each spawn will be needed.


Ty for posting this.
btw the answer is the spawn size is reduce based off tier. The exact % or tile radius it is reduced i dont know for sure. It seems on osi it was 100% first tier. 75% second tier 50% third and 25% 4th as most of the spawn on 4th tier spawns on the island at baracoon. about 1/10th of the 4th lvl spawn would spawn outside of the island. But that cold be because it spawned in the ocean and was put on the outter edge of the island based off spawn radius.

the numbers could be 100% 80% 60% 40% as well.

 

[silvertiger]

Altar advancing is often used to finish the harder levels more quickly, especially at theLord Oaks, Semidar and Neira spawn.

from the same topic on uoguide.

we have all agreed on OSI only 1 t2a spawn and only despise is auto popped on server up everything else must be valored. How then can you valor a champ to gain a red candle.

According to this you can't:

http://www.uoguide.com/Valor
Altars can be targeted only once per spawn: to activate it if inactive, or to add more red candles according to the user's amount of Valor.

 

[MB]

If I remember right this is how candle progression works -

Tier 1 - 256 Kills per Red Candle
Tier 2 - 128 Kills per Red Candle
Tier 3 - 64 Kills per Red Candle
Tier 4 - 32 Kills per Red Candle

Candles/Mobs to next
0 250
1 238
2 226
3 214
4 202
5 190
6 178
7 166
8 154
9 142
10 130
11 118
12 106
13 94 <-- Valor here vs 16 saves 36 T4 mobs
14 82
15 70
16 58

Any mob counts so a pocket of earlier tier mobs on T4 can go a long way.

 

[Bama]

Coon and 1 T2A spawn
Along with the ones not in Felucca
Those are the ones you can advance with valor because they have been auto popped

Altars can be targeted only once per spawn: to activate it if inactive, or to add more red candles according to the user's amount of Valor.
So some asshat could come by as a follower of valor and valor the altar and you would not get a red candle but a white one
Or the same asshat can come by as a follower of valor and valor it just before you start it and get no candles because for these spawns a Knight of Valor is not needed to advance the spawn though one should be used

 

[Loler]

You are wrong. Im done trying to correct you on something you have know personal knowledge of except copy paste.

 

[Opywang]

Thank you everybody for showing facts, and trying to show demis that the spawn need attentions.

Candles/Mobs to next
0 250
1 238
2 226
3 214
4 202
5 190
6 178
7 166
8 154
9 142
10 130
11 118
12 106
13 94 <-- Valor here vs 16 saves 36 T4 mobs
14 82
15 70
16 58

Any mob counts so a pocket of earlier tier mobs on T4 can go a long way.

MB good job with your counting.

Code: Not needed. This can be fixed ingame by a Staff member.

• Behaviour on OSI: The spawn area becomes smaller and therefore more intensely populated as you advance through the four tiers.

Behaviour on Demise: The spawn area is constant.

A lot of code not needed why don't they fix them?

• Behaviour on OSI: Fewer kills are needed to advance candles.

Behaviour on Demise: Too many kills are needed to advance the spawn.

Detailed Description: IP's research at OSI Illish, Trammel and Tokuno spawns has given us a good starting point with which to determine exactly how many kills are needed to advance each red candle at each different Spawn site. He has shown that the number of kills needed at each red is not the same at each site or for each Spawn group. The number of kills needed to advance has also been shown to be reduced by five for each red candle.

To avoid repetition - here is a summary of his results:


Sleeping Dragon...............: 3-4 (90), 4-5 (85), 5-6 (80).
Twalo the Glade...............: 3-4 (90).
Valor (Rikktor)...............................: 4-5 (75)
Valor (Coon).......: 2-3 (95)
Spirituality (Oaks)..........................: 4-5 (80)

Questions/Verification Needed: Does the number of kills depend on location or champ group or both? IP's results suggest that it definitely depends on champ group since if we extrapolate his results at Valor - the kills needed to advance are different for Rikktor and for Coon. Another (remote) possibility is that it could also depend on the initial number of candles.

At least a couple of Champs have to be completed from start to finish to verify that the 5 kill reduction per red candle remains stable throughout each tier.

This is the one we're talking about

 

[silvertiger]

You are wrong. Im done trying to correct you on something you have know personal knowledge of except copy paste.

Aw did poor little teenie get upset.

 

[Opywang]

I found a wiki website that show how many kills it take to get a champion out.
http://www.uoguide.com/Champion_Spawns

I'm not sure how exactly these are mention in the pictures, but I did see a guy kill 38 rotten corps, and lich lords to get all 4 candles so if this is accurate then it would mean we only have to kill a total of 500 kills on OSI to get champion out.

On Demis the total according to MB is 2736 kills.

it sound far fetching, and we need a real video of OSI to see if it is true, and I've shown two video of it already and it did seem true.

 

[crackhead]

necro mage tamer with very few hotkeys can solo most spawns in less than a hour, prolly easier nowdays with spellweaving. wither, invis, heal, cure, and heal pet.

 

[Opywang]

It still doesn't change that Demis spawn is accurate, and up to code with OSI.

On OSI you can be suited with pure pvper using scribes, wresling, and still be able to spawn, and PVP with no problem at all.

Demis you cannot use your pvper, and you must take a 2nd alt with you to defend your spawn.

Conclusion the spawner are vulnerable, and defenseless while the raider takes advantage of that.

It doesn't matter how powerful you are at spawn, or how quickly you can do it what matter is how inaccurate the spawn is, and it need to be fix. Right now no pvper can spawn, and pvp at the same time they eiather go to a spawn on a spawner, or they go to a spawn with pvper to defend the spawner. On;y a very few pvper can spawn, and pvp at the same time, but these are the elite one.

I notice players like to brag saying I can do it, and it's easy, but there venerable, and in wraith form that cannot PVP, and player aren't realizing that they can spawn using a pvper on OSI.

On OSI you can have any toon, and nobody will judge you, but on Demis everybody judge you if you do not have spell weave, or necros.

 

[Necrodog]

and player aren't realizing that they can spawn using a pvper on OSI

I spawned with a 6X necromage on here before. Lower chance of artifact, but its possible.

 

[Exillion]

i can solo everyone spawn on my pvper except maybe oaks i havent tried. Wraith form is very good for pvp at most spawns as well.

 

[silvertiger]

There have been countless pvpers spawning on nox mages. When you realize all the benefits of playing a human it becomes very easy to play the game.